Secrets of the City

They can’t even seem to use their existing 4th floor.

…that and while creating the largest mall in the United States may have been a great idea then, from what I gather, a lot of retailers are realizing that many people don’t want a mall atmosphere. If you dare, visit some of the newer retail locations in Maple Grove or Woodbury for instance. They’re a weird implementation of a synthetic Main Street.

I don’t have any facts, this is just my opinion: I don’t think having a bigger mall is going to make a lot of people suddenly want to go to the MoA. I haven’t studied it though.

We make our money back on education. We make our money back on roads. We can seem to afford improving either of those. What makes the mall so special?

The Rat would be more likely to stay away. He can buy most of the stuff in that place online.

Yeah, because the money we make back will go towards another MoA improvement. Heh.

It’s not like they are adding more mall space.

It will include four hotels, an National Hockey League-size skating arena and a 6,000-seat performing arts center.

I’m not so sure it’s a great idea to give them all that money but maybe they could squeeze a baseball stadium in there!

A stadium in that area: crazy! I’ve never heard of such a thing.

Why do we need a 6,000-seat performing arts center in Bloomington when we have a boat load of seats in theatres and venues throughout Minneapolis and St. Paul. We have Xcel Energy Center, for f**ks sake. They should turn that huge parking lot wasteland into a beautiful park with shops peppered about the area.

What a coincidence!

The mall ought to offer the naming rights for the price….perhaps we could change it to the Mall of Minnesota Taxpayers if we’re gonna foot the bill.

See the Mall of Past MOA MNspeaking here.

Perhaps an appropriate name for the expansion could be “Block E Redux,” or something similar.

I’m more likely to go to a mall for shopping, rather than ice skating or seeing live theater. On the plus side, maybe this will put the final nail in the coffin of the planned Burnsville performing arts center.

I have a hard time reading the words “performing arts center” without having my thought wander to this cleverly named Milwaukee landmark.

Ah.. Art’s Performing Center. Good memories.

Mall of Minnesota Taxpayers

And Minnesota Taxpayers Field, and the Minnesota Taxpayers Dome…

Perhaps an appropriate name for the expansion could be “Block E Redux,” or something similar.

Block E 2: Electric Boogaloo

Oh, and obviously the real long-term aim of the MOA is to create a suburban arcology … you know, a dense almost-self-sustaining indoor city without any of the environmental benefits. Old people from the burbs already have dinner and take their exercise walks around there. How long until they live in the building too? Maybe some already do!

Condominiums of America! I love it. Or should we call it Biosphere III?

As the sun’s rays become more deadly over the future decades, it’s not out of the question that large self-sustaining, environmentally controlled structures like the MOA will spring up that include condos, grocery stores, etc. They made a movie about such a concept once. I’d invest in it.

Putting a 6,000 seat theater in the MOA seems absolutely absurd. Honestly, they need to do some research on similarly-sized venues in the area; I’m almost certain they’ll find that they won’t be able to average more than a 40% capacity.

Unless, of course, they’re catering to the Classic Rock and Country Crowds. Then it might work. Might.

I would not invest in anything starring Pauly Shore.

I say let them build it bigger and huger and more disgusting than ever! If it keeps the suburban morons out of my city… I’m all for it!

Leigha, you don’t think people would rather go to the MOA to see Cher and the Eagles?

I wish we could keep all morons out of the city, Christine.

Seriously, the MOA has got like 3 more giant parking lots to expand into! What else is anyone going to use that space for? Don’t forget to build lots of extra giant parking ramps, though!

I don’t think you’re going to have that problem too much longer if the crips have anything to say about it.

wow some blatant racism! sweet!

oh oh oh, do the one about the arabs now!

Bass Pro Shops has a 300,000 sf store on the plan.

Think Gander Mtn will want them to get the benefit of this public financing?

I love the Eagles.

I’m with sayin’ on that one.

If the expansion goes through, it should be pirate themed. Picture it: pirate ships, pirate-themed amusement park rides, seafood restaurants, a daily musical pirate revue.

To me it makes more sense than a few hundred thousand square feet filled with the exact same crap found in every ‘burb and how about a stipulation that they have to fill the fourth floor with long-term leasors before they can break ground on anything.

The “Arabs” don’t have street gangs and a culture that celebrates criminality.

The idea of a senior living center in the MOA amuses me greatly.

“Let’s see, how can we make going to the MOA an even more miserable experience? Oh! I know! Seniors on rascals!”

If the tax-payers have to foot this bill, we need to strike some kind of deal. If we pay for the MOA, then the city bulldozes Block E and builds a beautiful park there with a lake, swans, non-chain shops, etc. But they keep the Hooters.

I wonder what the 6,000 seats in the performing arts center is for at MOA? Could it be the new home of the Minnesota Orchestra in the near future?

I hope not. That would be tragic.

I thought I heard that they were going to have a press conference this week to announce the new theme of the park, but I haven’t heard anything yet.

I wonder what the 6,000 seats in the performing arts center is for at MOA? Could it be the new home of the Minnesota Orchestra in the near future?

The Minnesota Orchestra will soon unveil plans for a major renovation of Orchestra Hall. So no.

There’s kind of a hotel tower attached to block E. Those aren’t as easy to just bulldoze.

Wayne…we prefer “across the street from Target Center” and not “attached to Block E”.

I say let them build it bigger and huger and more disgusting than ever! If it keeps the suburban morons out of my city… I’m all for it!

spoken like a true ‘urban elitist’ Thanks for perpeutating that sterotype for the benefit of all us city-dwellers.

ahaha, yeah, I know the hotel would love to dislodge itself from block E and run down the street somewhere, but it’s stuck with crappy bedfellows.

Is there anything more comi-tragic than a watching a group lunch “al-fresco” on the “patio” @ the Applebees in Block E. Seems like maybe it’s people who long for the feel of a genuine food court, just like their hometown mall used to have.

Hi, fellas! It’s official.

MOA is a disaster from the Investors to the Marketing team to the Security Officers. Spending more money on the MOA is a waste. MOA has no personality, unlike the old Southdale used to have. I’m talking the Southdale which used to host romantic and intimate balls.
MOA resembles the personality of an airport with the exact same terror-alert-RED-security feel.

Sorry… I get tired of the suburbanites who come into my independent theater in downtown Minneapolis and act all paranoid when they have to park on 14th and LaSalle. They dart into the theater and immediately run to their cars after the show as if they were afraid a bullet could graze their SUVs at any moment. I have suburban fatigue, that’s all.

The “Arabs” don’t have street gangs and a culture that celebrates criminality.

Hacking off heads and blowing people up ain’t criminal?

“MOA is a disaster from the Investors to the Marketing team to the Security Officers.”

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Makes a very nice yearly ROI, which is really the only objective point. You should rest easy in the knowledge that you’re probably not within the MOA’s target market.

As stated above, they probably can sell 6000 seats for Cher, or Tony Orlando, or a Monkees reunion, and make money doing it. If the city or state can work a deal for later returns which make the up-front subsidy a great investment, they should consider it. But don’t confuse this with financing fine arts – the Mall may suck in your mind, but it still might be a worthy public investment if more jobs are created and more taxes generated.
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Word around here is that it’s a sinch now that SpongeBob is involved. Putting the SpongeBob first was a top theme on the campaign trail last year and I don’t forsee anyone with the nerve to stand up and oppose it. C’mon, people! It’s for the SpongeBob.

I need clarification: when we see these “suburbanites” rushing to and fro in a race induced panic, how exactly do we know they’re from the suburbs? Is it their dress? cars? odor?

And if you were to be found in the suburbs at some point, they would know you’re from the city because of your confidence? piercings? odor?

I’m curious about this. I know some pretty savvy suburban folk and some pretty clueless urban folk. But I don’t know any savvy country folk. They’re ALL shit kicking hick racist Nascarheads. Man. I hate them!

If Kevin is right, I’m changing my name to ALAMN SpongeBob.

Wait, Kevin’s never right…

Christine–

If you get tired of those types of people, maybe you should work for a different theater. Triple Espresso aims right at that demographic.

In a related vein, my boyfriend’s employer relocated their department holiday party from Bryant Lake Bowl to MOA because some people were afraid to drive into “the city.

At one point the Chanhassen was considering a move to the MOA if the theater was built.

“They dart into the theater and immediately run to their cars after the show as if they were afraid a bullet could graze their SUVs at any moment.“

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So many stereotypes, so little time . . .
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You are spot-on, Elizabeth. Triple Espresso does cater to suburbanites. I was warned about that. But my best friend doesn’t manage any other show, so I work for Triple Espresso. They can be endearing when they ask me a million times if there’s a Red Lobster in the neighborhood. I just want to hug them and tell them that Market BBQ is so much better! But do they listen to me? No! They go back to Coon/Lake/Ville/Rapids/Ridge/River and eat at Red Lobster.

They never listen to me! Why do they ask me if they don’t intend to take my advice?!!!?? Why?!!!

But when hipster liberals spew such garbage, they ALWAYS get a pass!

Hilarious, nateek! I’m so weary of the urban elitism around here. There’s really no point in responding. If you hate the suburbs, cool, don’t live there. If you hate suburbanites, that says more about you than it does about me.

Nothing screams “hip” like the thought of spending a day shopping at Old Navy and Bass Pro Shops followed by dinner at the food court as the wife and I enjoy a #3 value meal (shared, of course) and wrapping up the day at the theater watching Cher and wondering why her face hasn’t melted like wacko Jacko’s.

Dollars to donuts, Christine was raised in the sticks.

Derusha – all I’m saying is you better watch where you park your Dodge Caravan when you go to work downtown because I swear I will jump you and cut you with my shiv. I’ll do it. And then I’ll steal your Bed, Bath, and Beyond gift cards, break into your car and take your Josh Groban discs, and run away laughing in your face.

Can we bring back the IIMS designations?

(Increasingly Indistinguishable Minneapolis Suburbs)

they probably can sell 6000 seats for Cher, or Tony Orlando, or a Monkees reunion — What, is this a casino now?

my boyfriend’s employer relocated their department holiday party from Bryant Lake Bowl to MOA because some people were afraid to drive into “the city. — My employer had their holiday party at Nicollet Island Inn a few years back and while the feedback from a select few was fantasticly enthusiastic, the overwhelming majority hated it and we’ve been having it at a hotel in Brooklyn Park ever since.

Hey! Iowa isn’t the sticks. It’s fly-over country. Get it right.

That’s right. It’s gotta have trees to be considered the sticks.

Hay could be considered sticks.

Iowa has a lot of hay.

“– What, is this a casino now?“

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They wish.

(Nothing makes a return on investment these days like a metro-area casino does.)

A bigger return is being a state legislator who gets money under the table from the Sioux to block the Chippewa from getting a casino at the MOA.

Schnapps.

Question, to hopefully be answered by someone who actually knows: Is it really that abnormal to request government funding for such a large-scale development? Did the MOA receive any prior to its opening in 1991? (The article only cites the $108M in subsidies since then.) Do new theaters and shopping centers not normally receive any taxpayer help? I always assumed every revenue-generating development got at least a little assistance, and that the dollar amount was commensurate to project size.

And with Sponge Bob comin’, you can just leave your kid there while you gamble the rent money at the tables, instead of in the parking lot.

requesting government subsidy for ANY kind of development is becoming the norm. it’s developers’ way of both propping up their profits with public money and of screwing the places they build in more than they would have been able to otherwise.

If the governmental entities are willing to give corporate welfare (a la Rogers, MN), then the developers and businesses will take advantage of it. It’s just that simple.

“If the governmental entities are willing to give corporate welfare (a la Rogers, MN), then the developers and businesses will take advantage of it. It’s just that simple.”

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Usually, the “welfare” you’re referring to is made up of a lowering of the taxes the corporation has to pay in the future. That’s what Rogers did for Cabella’s. Rogers will now reap far more than it gave up in the future through the growth in the area that will likely happen because of Cabella’s new store. Maybe I’m too picky, but “welfare” doesn’t seem to be the right word. “Investment”, maybe . . .

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Right, because nobody would have developed in Rogers otherwise. Cabella’s was doing them a huge favor by taking that worthless land next to a f’n freeway interchange off of their hands. It probably would have been just the tumbleweeds, not some other development that would actually the pay property taxes that offset the infrastructure that it uses.

Bobby had been making a lot of sense recently, but this is tortuous logic that I’d think a true free-marketeer would see right through.

I wish they’d invest in me.

I’m looking for an investor to pay tuition @ Breck for my kid…will consider re-naming him for the right price.

Bob,

The people of Rogers staged a hella-coup against the former city administrator for all the subsidies. They saw what you haven’t – that at some point cities need to quit bending over for these businesses. It has to be a partnership, not some Randian clusterfuck where the city is the dimestore slut whose only existence is to be plugged haphazardly.

I don’t think you’re going to have that problem too much longer if the crips have anything to say about it.

The crips?

“I’m looking for an investor to pay tuition @ Breck for my kid…will consider re-naming him for the right price.”

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If your kid is going to the U, I’ll be paying some of his tuition. (See, instead of all those individual applications for “invest in MEEE”, we just went with the Big State School idea.)

Same thing, though.

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“They saw what you haven’t – that at some point cities need to quit bending over for these businesses.“

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I’ve seen the math for that particular investment, and it makes huge economic sense for Rogers. There was a movement after – the one that staged the coup – completely built on the “we shouldn’t be giving these bastards welfare” meme. No numbers, no rational argument beyond “da lousy bums!”

I have to much self respect to characterize that as them “seeing something I’ve missed.”
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Come on, Bobby… subsidizing schools and businesses are much different. A business isn’t going to mug you on the street or rape your sister if it isn’t given proper education.

“A business isn’t going to mug you on the street or rape your sister if it isn’t given proper education.“

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True. But, the dominant belief among many here is that poverty breeds crime more than any other single factor, and, what do you think is the best cure for poverty? Jobs. And you need those pesky evil corporations and businesses to create those jobs. We can’t ALL work for the government. (I know – this IS Minnesota, and we can certainly try . . .)

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Heh. Thanks for brightening my day!

As long as we’re talking about restaurants I gotta mention Mavericks up in some suburb on like Maryland avenue. Roseville maybe. It’s in a little strip mall so it doesn’t stand out, but if you like beef you’ll like Maverick. They have roast beef sandwiches, beef brisket sandwiches and that’s about it. I like the open-faced brisket with potatoes and gravy. If you’re ever looking for a quick, easy, delicious lunch, try Mavericks.

another miserable day working late

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Maverick’s? Never been there. Nonetheless, doesn’t this pic look as though the sandwich is sticking it’s tongue out at you?

Maverick’s is on Lexington just north of Larpenteur. It’s in Roseville, approximately 100 whopping yards from the St. Paul border. And it’s totally, totally ass-kicking. Go there for a sandwich.

That intersection of Lexington and Larpenteur has some great food. You got yer Maverick’s as mentioned, but then you also got yer Keys, Ol Mexico, Wongs and Snuffy’s. Gooood eatin’ at one relatively obscure intersection.

Well, we agree on one thing: Maverick’s is the best roast beef sandwich joint in town. The brisket is good, too. There’s a nice little bakery in the area. And Mac’s, when you just gotta have some greasy, genuine fish ‘n chips with malt vinegar. Patrick’s pub is not worth the stop — for the true dive bar experience, try Ted’s next to Flowerama and across from Key’s.

Um, okay, got it. Sure. It’s good. I believe you all. Really!

But DID YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES???

They’re sooooooooooooooooooo funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahaha. You’re right ranty, those are hilarious! Seriously.

I love the first one. mmmm…..roast beef

Those sandwiches look like they’re made out of vaginas. I prefer the brisket. I wonder what that means?

Ranty – you’d have eaten there by now if you hadn’t left.

Those sandwiches look like they’re made out of vaginas.

…and is this a bad thing, or a good thing?

I’m sure they’re fine sandwiches, and really I have to say that there is a glaring paucity of good restaurants around the capitol, so I’m pleased you found a decent option. When I worked there, I brought my lunch, mostly because it was better than MNDot or any of the places within walking distance. The only place I went more than once (nearby) was The Coffee Cup on Rice… and that’s not because the food was so great, but more because the owner is a hysterical Greek who also happens to be rabidly conservative – an entertaining juxtaposition, let’s say.

Sidenote: on the subject of dining, I had dinner at Stella’s tonight for my mother’s birthday. What a worthless effing excuse for a restaurant. Everything tasted like overcooked salt, and to top it all off, something I ate GAVE ME A THOUSAND HIVES ALLLL OVER THE PLACE!

Nothing like half a box of benedryl for dessert.

God I hate that place.

Ain’t nothing wrong with a well-made vajayjaywich.

Well I would hope so.

“Those sandwiches look like they’re made out of vaginas.”

Traditionally, I’m pretty sure it’s the taco that is thought to resemble a vagina. A comparison made to justify the eating of tacos.

But I’ve never heard it taken to the Hannibal Lecter extreme that they’ve been described as actually being composed of vaginas. There’s a line and I fear you boys have crossed it.

I’ve wanted to own a restaurant solely for the purpose of naming sandwiches after people. Someone is definitely going to get their name attached to a vajayjaywich.

I’m totally driving across town this weekend for some of that hot roast beef action. Yum!

Ranty is right — the owner of the Coffee Cup is a hoot. He also makes one of the best traditional breakfasts in town. Famious for the hash browns.

Oddly enough, the coffee at the Coffee Cup is terrible.

Ranty saw tounges, I saw vaginas. I ate there yesterday, so my view counts.

I would like to see some vagi-

nevermind.