Secrets of the City

wow, lets put some wind mills up by moorhead – so damn windy up there…

Identical legislation already has passed the Senate, and Gov. Tim Pawlenty has pledged to sign the bill,

holy shit! The first thing I thought when I saw this was that TPaw was going to veto it. This is pretty good news!

TPaw has worked on this agreement for quite a while and made it one of his “four horses” as outlined in his SOTSA. The biggest problem I’ve heard people mention is that it doesn’t do enough to ensure the energy is actually produced in Minnesota. Rural folks would have like to see a percentage required for a certain amount produced in-state. An amendment was offered as such, it was defeated.

Any chance there is a rebate built into this for installing Solar PVC in your home? Like they did in CA.

I would love to put solar panels on my garage. It’s south facing and always melts off fast so I’m guessing it might be a candidate for panels.

Why the fuck is Xcel getting state government approval for creating renewable energy products by 2025?! The whole company is nothing more than a goddamn, corrupt private institution, run by Republican hacks and robber baron CEO’s; they always never been honest with the state folks for the last several years when it comes down to outrageous billing payments each month. Already, Xcel has a complaint by the MN Attorney General office for customer misinformation: fixed energy rates that forces some consumers to pay more on their bills, just to keep the heat on in the winter. The purpose of the plan was to get cheap energy rates without spending more. In other words, they LIED about it! And they always do that!

So why in the world are we allowing our elected officials to request Xcel as a leading contender to alternative energy resources? Basically, I’d rather have my money to spend elsewhere like an independent business that does renewable energy for local interests, rather than an out to state transplant.

“Why the fuck is Xcel getting state government approval for creating renewable energy products by 2025?!“

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“Approval”? They just got mandated into this 30% requirement, and were lucky to get a few of the bill adjustments they got at all. “My mom just approved me to clean up my room.” “The judge approved me for 30 days in jail.” Right.

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“The whole company is nothing more than a goddamn, corrupt private institution, run by Republican hacks and robber baron CEO’s . . “

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Xcel is a publicly-owned company, and guess who owns the bulk of the shares:

Institutional owners, which means stock funds, mutual funds, the kinds of investments that normal, everyday, ordinary people own if they have 401k’s or IRA’s or, sometimes, you’ll even find lots of shares in company pension programs. It’s a stable, secure, long-term investment on which millions of people are depending for their futures. If you look up who owns large chunks of it, you’re not going to find any robber barons, Donald Trumps, or foreign despots. Just . . . us.

This “corporations are Satan” thing is so . . . irrational.

.

Big G-
An amendment was offered, like I mentioned earlier, to ensure at least some of the energy is produced in Minnesota. It was defeated. Also, I think Xcel might have a higher standard than 20/25. Maybe 30/20 or something.

“No one mentioned this yesterday…” This is technically true, Matt, as my comment from this post was made on Monday:

“It’s all the Midwest folks, and it all ends up downwind from your dirty coal-fired power plants.”

The MN House will today consider a version of a bill that the Senate has already passed that will significantly increase Minnesota’s use of cleaner renewable energy sources for our electrical utilities. Pawlenty has said he will sign the bill, if it hits his desk.

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I have not read the bill in detail, so I’m not sure how it may address the largest roadblock to more wind generated electricity in Minnesota: the cost of building the power lines from the turbines to the towns, especially to the Twin Cities.

We at the American Lung Association of Minnesota are supporters of wind energy, as you might expect.

I love it when we talk bill text and people start posting statute.

Wind turbine farms have another big issue, if they’re located in an agricultural area: Crop dusters will not fly over or around the towers.

This is becoming a major issue in Illinois, along the I39 corridor near Bloomington. There are several new soybean pathogens moving northward, and when they are identified in an area, the farmers have about 24 hours to spray, or lose the entire crop. The acres are so large, that aerial is the only way to complete the spraying in time. Unfortunately, there are so many wind farms in the area, that aerial spraying is all but impossible anymore.

A serious question for Kevin (who never wants to meet me):

What is the House GOP caucus position on renewable energy?

“Oh, god, annotize my subsections” she moaned . . .

the cost of building the power lines from the turbines to the towns, especially to the Twin Cities.

Xcel will do it regardless of cost.

As a utility employee and unabashed liberal, I’m ecstatic this bill was passed. As for locally produced wind energy, I’d consider the entire region, not just the state of MN. The wind doesn’t know where state lines begin and end, and it happens that the Buffalo Ridge area stretches from southwest MN into South Dakota. I’d hate to see part of the requirement mandate the energy be produced in MN and exclude any turbines that are five miles west in SD.

As for some of the details about wind, the best wind is wind that blows at 14-20 mph an average of 65 percent of the time, which makes it economically viable. Few places have that kind of consistent wind, unfortunately. And hardly any wind is going to blow in the middle of summer when it’s 90 degrees, humid as hell and the air is dead-still. So although I love the bill and love what wind energy can do for the Midwest, it’s not the end all/be all of energy solutions.

“I’m gonna file your briefs … ON THE FLOOR!”

Forget about crop-dusters, look what the wind turbines are doing to our military radar!

I hardly believe that the footprint of windpower in the US has become so great as to threaten our nation’s soy crop. Message to Illini farmers with wind turbines. Plant corn, dudes!

I’d like to think that Xcel would be responsible enough to make this move on their own. Kinda like you’d think oil companies would be responsible enough to spend some of that $40 billion profit on more than just token research on alternative fuels.

The wind doesn’t know where state lines begin and end,

Obviously we need to erect huge walls on state lines to teach it where they begin and end.

I agree with Bob! By growing soy they’re only encouraging self-righteous vegans who shop at the wedge. What they need is a beef injection!

(kidding! kidding!)

Actually, Minnesota imports a lot of electricity from Canada. Manitoba has a pretty big hydroelectric system, from what I hear.

“I hardly believe that the footprint of windpower in the US has become so great as to threaten our nation’s soy crop. Message to Illini farmers with wind turbines. Plant corn, dudes!”

I just used soy beans as an expample. Soybeans are not the only crop that are aerial sprayed. You have large enough acrage, crop dusting will be the most timely and economical option, no matter what crop you plant, including corn. Also remember, that continuous monoculture of corn on your land is going to seriously deplete the productive capacity of that land. Best practices would have you rotate your crops, including a legume crop such as soy for nitrate replenishment.

And while it may not put our national agriculture at risk, there is certainly a major detrimental impact on those that ARE affected. With the number of wind farms that are already present, and proposed in Mclean and Woodford County IL, you could easlily find well over half the currently cultivated land in those two counties essentially removed from access to aerial spraying.

I was just down in Bloomington a few weeks ago, and those wind farms are massive. Every few miles along I39, essentially from Rockford to Bloomington there is a wind farm. Each consisting of 30-40 towers.

I do support wind power. My point is, that you have to make careful consideration of the siting of the towers.

“Kinda like you’d think oil companies would be responsible enough to spend some of that $40 billion profit on more than just token research on alternative fuels.”

I would like to think so, too, Erica. Unfortunately, they don’t, so the job falls to nonprofits like us who care about clean air.

“Actually, Minnesota imports a lot of electricity from Canada. Manitoba has a pretty big hydroelectric system, from what I hear”

That’s true, mulad. Most of Minnesota’s oil comes form Canada, as well.

So when are we invading canada?

No official date yet, but I’m sharpening my skates and have officially started calling Canadian Bacon “Freedom Ham”

So when are we invading canada?

Heh! Mrs. Lungs has asked me that question before.

She’s just kidding.

I think….

We’ve got to figure out what to do about Quebec, though. That’s going to be a pain the ass.

“SPEAK ENGLISH, WOULD YOU!? THIS IS AMERICA NOW!”

Freedom Ham. Heh!

We tried taking Quebec before. It didn’t work out too well for our guys.

The white house is a little musty these days anyway. It needs a 10 car garage facing the street and like ten peaks.

oh my bad, wrong war.

How utilities will meet the renewable mandate?

Ask, and MPR will answer.

Like manna from heaven.

Except during pledge week.

“Not germane means not germane,” she said.

“I’m gonna file your briefs … ON THE FLOOR!”

Now that’s funny! Well, except that briefs are more a judicial thing. But still, funny!

Alamn – most of our guys voted for the bill. It wasn’t perfect, but it wasn’t horrible, either. “Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good.” That.

Like manna from heaven.

You just gave me a really weird flashback to grade school and mass and church songs. I guess the flashback isn’t any weirder than having gone through it all in the first place. I just wasn’t expecting it.

Bob, how dare you post a link to an MPR story that you have to actually listen to! Because now Wayne can’t hear it while he’s at work. But don’t post a transcript, either.

“Bob, how dare you post a link to an MPR story that you have to actually listen to! Because now Wayne can’t hear it while he’s at work. But don’t post a transcript, either.”

And screw us HOH/deaf people too.

yeah, erica, you hearie fool

Alamn – most of our guys voted for the bill.

One of the things I like about living here. There are too many places where this could never happen. Hat tip to kwatt’s krewe for putting right before “Right.”

“yeah, erica, you hearie fool “

I’ve got no beef with erica.
My frustration is with links without any transcripts, be they MPR audio, WCCO or minnstories video, or what ever. If there’s no transcript, or in the case of video, no captioning (or it can’t be appreciated strictly on it’s visual component, a la the bikini ice fishing), it shuts a segement of the “community” out of the discussion.

And for whatever it may be worth, I’m not one to ever use the term “hearie”, let alone “hearie fool.”

I’ve got the “best” of possible situations, as a HOH person: too much of a “hearie” to be part of the deaf community, but HOH enough to be marginalized among the “hearies.”

I hate when MPR links to an audio stream.

That’s exactly what my point was the other day. The lack of transcripts and growing number of audio-only stories is really not a good thing.

We just think the word “hearie” is funny.

I kind of love the word hearie.

I totally agree with you mnblrmkr and wayne. At CCO, I write a text version of my story every night for our website, to go along with the video.

But hearie is a great word, with a proud history on this site.

Yeah, I was going to note that local television channels all seem to have transcripts with their videos (not just here, but all across the country). It doesn’t make sense why radio stations with podcasts of stories wouldn’t do the same thing.

Props to all the TV stations for transcripts. It comes in handy when your stories don’t play on my Max OS X browser.

Maybe “hearie” is the word you were looking for to mean on-line friends. Used in a sentence: I was talkin’ to some hearies on MNSpeak and we don’t like MPR stories without transcripts.

Hat tip to kwatt’s krewe for putting right before “Right.”

Thanks. I’ll bring that up at caucus. Or not.

To me, “hearie” grates. I usually see it used as an insult. I won’t comment again if others use it, but that doesn’t mean I’ll start using it myself.

It’s original use in THIS thread by grote, especially, just came across as particularily mocking of my add on to Wayne’s and erica’s comments about the audio only links.

And much obliged to Jason and any other reporter or audio/video host that posts their transcripts.

Although I’ve yet to figure out why the political debates last fall that Don Shelby moderated weren’t captioned for broadcast.

I was just mocking Wayne to begin with, if that wasn’t clear.

Although I’ve yet to figure out why the political debates last fall that Don Shelby moderated weren’t captioned for broadcast.

Trust us, you really didn’t miss anything.

“I was just mocking Wayne to begin with, if that wasn’t clear.”

And I was just trying to use some lame-ass humor to indicate that there are other legitimate reasons to object to these transcript-less links. Oh well.

“Trust us, you really didn’t miss anything.”

But these are supposed to be captioned. Regardless whether someone else feels they were useful or not, that’s something I prefer to decide for myself. One of the points of the debate broadcasts is to allow people to see/hear the candidates unfiltered through a reporter’s writing. When I have to wait for a write up in the paper, or on-line, I’m denied the opportunity to develop my own unfilitered impression. Mot to mention that the reports are summaries, and there might be something that was said, or an issue that was raised that “I” might find important or interesting to myself that gets left out.

I was mocking with Wayne, not at him.

I’m surprised those weren’t captioned, mnblrmkr. I’ll remember that for the next time we do debates in 08. We have reminder signs all around for us to call our live captioning service when we do breaking news…

I was surprised as well. WCCO has probably been one of the better stations in that respect. I don’t know the regulations well enough to know if the debates would have qualified for the exemption from FCC mandates.

Maybe I should put this in my calendar so I can hold you to you your promise.

T-Paw will sign the bill into law today at the U of M. I’ll be there, reporting for MNspeak and representing the Lung.

“I’ll be there, reporting for MNspeak and representing the Lung.“

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We’re not a socialist state yet, bub. There is no all-inclusive, group-thinking, collective “The Lung.” We’re made up of many discrete, individual lungs, each with its own set of hopes and dreams and ambitions, and you don’t speak for all of them. (cough . . ) Don’t tread on my lung!

Having survived the Great White Wall of Death of 2007, I turn my thoughts to the next step in Minnesota’s move toward cleaner, renewable fuels. On Monday is the first of a series of meetings with key leaders in the House and Senate regarding expanding our state’s E85 network.

Expect an announcement soon from Minneapolis and Hennepin County on their use of alternative fuels. Also from the Air National Guard Wing near the airport.