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On the Ball

The Three-Pointer: A Maddening Choke Job

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Photo copyright 2008 NBAE (Photo by Steve Yeater/NBAE via Getty Images)

Game #7, Road Game #4: Golden State 113, Minnesota 100 in OT

Season record: 1-6

1. Knowing How To Lose

Well, that certainly was a psychologically crippling contest for this already reeling Wolves franchise to absorb--and inwardly encourage, with their corrosive blend of inexperience, self-doubt and thus self-fulfilling incompetence. Up by 9 points with 4:30 to play, the Wolves allowed a Warrior ballclub missing three starters (Monta Ellis, Al Harrington and Corey Maggette) to come back and tie it in regulation, then go on to win in overtime. 

You want reasons, there are plenty of reasons and they are fairly easy to identify. Most blatantly, the Wolves couldn't score, getting seven points the final 12:06 of the game, a period's worth of offensive ineptitude that encompassed the last 7:06 of regulation and the five-minute overtime. They missed 14 of their last 15 shots. Not coincidentally, the only player on the floor during that time who truly wanted to step up and be the crunchtime go-to guy, Al Jefferson, couldn't get touches, let alone a good look at the hoop. That's right, after going 11-19 FG in the first 41 minutes of the game, Jefferson was 0-0 FG in the final 12.

It is no fun to kick a man when he's down, but the hard truth is that the substitution patterns of Coach Randy Wittman played a significant, probably decisive, role in this defeat. The game turned when the Warriors went to a zone defense midway through the fourth period, denying Jefferson the rock, deterring penetration and daring the Wolves, who had trouble shooting the trey most of the night, to beat them from outside. There are those who will say that Witt should have responded by putting in Bassy Telfair for Randy Foye, when it became clear Foye lacked the point guard skills to get the ball to Jefferson or otherwise set people up with feeds that fostered their natural athletic rhythm and took their thoughts of choking out of the equation. I'll agree with this to some degree--after all, Foye wound up playing the final 26:25 without a break. But after a brutal start to the season, Foye had finally found his vintage game during the third quarter, and was playing inspired ball at both ends of the court. I understand Witt trying to ride that for both the short and long term. Besides, no matter how good Bassy's handle and court vision are, he is a career 39% shooter who'd gone 2-8 FG Saturday against Portland and was 0-5 FG in this game--not exactly a zone-buster. By contrast, after a slow first half (1-5 FG), Foye had 4 buckets (in 8 attempts) 4 dimes and two steals while going a plus +17 in the final 9:25 of the third to turn the game around in Minnesota's favor, then began the 4th by dropping three more dimes in the first 3 minutes of the period. As I say, I probably would have gone to Bassy at least to give Foye a blow and see if the change of pace helped against the zone. But there are decent justification for staying with Foye--not least because one of the abiding questions this season is whether or not he can ever be an effective point guard.

No, where Wittman fell down on the job was in leaving Kevin Love on the bench for the entire fourth quarter and overtime. It was inexplicable and had me swearing at the television set with a fervor normally reserved for stupid commercials and politicians.

Consider that Love was plus +10 in 26:28, second only to Corey Brewer's plus +11 among all players on the court (and Brewer didn't get any 4Q or OT burn either). He picked up two quick fouls that sent him to the bench with the Wolves up 8-2 just 2:28 into the game. He played the entire third period when the Wolves were rolling up a season-high 37 points. But most importantly, Love was simply a much better fit for the circumstances than Craig Smith, the man who replaced him for the 4th quarter. Smith has historically not teamed up well with Jefferson, and lacks the range to either pull the zone away from Jefferson in the low block or stick the jumper. Love has worked well with Jefferson and has a midrange that requires coverage. He's also a much better passer than Smith, which would have been a big help to Foye. But most of all, Love is a far superior rebounder than Smith at both ends of the court. How crucial is that? Well, Golden State outrebounded the Wolves *16-3* in that 4th quarter, while primarily playing two bigs, Biedrins and Turiaf.

Smith did not play badly. He had two of the team's 3 boards in the 4th, had two assists early in the period, and took a charge that was vital in keeping the Wolves close in the final minutes of regulation. But he was way too strong on a layup the Wolves needed in crunchtime, had a rebound go off his foot to lose a possession and, most maddening, had Biedrins reach over him for an offensive rebound that led to second-chance points for the Warriors that the Wolves couldn't afford to yield.

With the Wolves down two 61 seconds into overtime, Witt finally sent Smith to the pine--and brought in Mike Miller to play alongside Jefferson, Gomes, McCants and Foye. That was the real head-slapper. Miller probably should have been in the game, but for Shaddy McCants, who yet again demonstrated that he cannot hit shots in the clutch. (On the other hand, judging from his strange crunchtime play tonight, Miller simply doesn't shoot.) By going small, Witt not only left Love on the sidelines, but turned Gomes into a power forwad, effectively taking him off Stephen Jackson. 

Perhaps the coach has a problems with his short-term memory. Jackson had been killing the Wolves all night when Wittman came up with a novel idea that had Jim Petersen, me, and most every other person who has been watching this team this year jumping for joy--he went with a big front line of Jefferson, Love and Gomes, sticking Gomes on Jackson with 4:58 to play in the third and the Wolves, fueled by two Foye steals for baskets, down just two, 73-71.  Freed from the chains of the power forward position to which he'd been shackled for most of the past year-plus of dreaded Wolves Smallball, Gomes went nuts, blitzing Jackson at both ends of the court. At the time Gomes entered the game, Jackson had played 30:02 and scored 20 points (8-13 FG, 1-3 3pt, 3-4 FT) with 5 assists, 2 steals and 2 turnovers. In the 16:58 from the time Gomes entered until the end of regulation, Jackson scored 4 points (1-3 FG, 0-1 3pt, 2-2 FT) with zero assists, 1 steal, and two turnovers. Meanwhile, Gomes had 14 points (6-10 FG, 1-2 3pt, 1-2 FT) with 4 rebounds (to Jackson's 1 during that time), 2 turnovers and a steal.

Hey, maybe a large lineup that has Gomes at the small forward slot might come in handy sometimes. But apparently not down by 2 in overtime with a well-rested Kevin Love on the bench. Instead, Miller subbed in for Rhino, Gomes, probably a bit spent from playing 17 straight minutes (most of them guarding Jackson), moved to power forward, and McCants now guarded Jackson. A couple minutes after the substitution was made, Jackson hit a back-breaking trey, putting Golden State up by 5 with 2:16 to play. The way the Wolves' offense was going, it was an unsurmountable margin.

2. Showing the Strain

For the second Three-Pointer in a row, Jefferson's words from Media Day are coming back to haunt him. This time it is his claim that he wasn't going to berate his teammates for not getting him the ball; that he was going to become more of a leader, encouraging his troops both in the locker room and on the court. But after Golden State effectively deployed that zone and Foye had a lazy, arching pass to Jefferson picked off, Big Al started screaming at his point guard, and continued to express his displeasure for the next couple of possessions. Finally he apologized as Golden State was shooting free throws a while later. But as Foye came to the sidelines a little after that, he got an earful from Wittman--perhaps related to what occurred with Jefferson, perhaps not.

A nonstop diet of defeats (6 and counting this year now) clearly has a lot to do with this, but it must be said that mentally and emotionally, the Wolves are a very callow, unreliable outfit. After months of implying that playing the point was no big deal, comparing himself to Steve Nash, and in general talking up his command of a difficult position that he hasn't played very much or very well, Foye has been exposed for false bravado. Usually this is a sign of deep-seated anxiety that someone is trying too hard, verbally and physically, to overcome. That's why I have some empathy for Wittman's decision to go with Foye throughout the second half and overtime. But if the alpha player and the coach both lambaste Foye when he makes a mistake stupid enough to be obvious to all (and thus especially to him) it just puts a little elbow grease into the churn of a vicious cycle.

Then there is the odds-on candidate for veteran leader, Mike Miller. Can someone explain why this notorious marksman, ballyhooed in the opening television segment for all the scoring success he's had against Golden State, refused to spot up and shoot the damn ball as the Wolves were collectively wrapping the hands around their throats down the stretch? Blame Wittman for deploying Miller less than 2 minutes in the 4th, making his 0-1 FG (it was a trey attempt) understandable. But no shots in 3:58 of overtime, when it was glaringly apparent that Foye and McCants had no confidence and were looking for others to step up, and that Jefferson wasn't going to touch the ball without a couple of Warriors sustaining mortal wounds. You ostensibly have acquired Miller for just this purpose, to squeeze the trigger and make the opposition respect the long-range game, perhaps peel a player away from Jefferson in the zone. At the very least, instead of making a big to-do about jumping into a perimeter weave with the enthusiasm of a drunken square-dancer, Miller should have glanced at that orange circle with the twine draping and seen if just maybe he could have tossed that orange ball through it.

At least one try. He's Mike Miller. The ball might have gone in. Instead, as McCants went 5-17 FG and Foye 7-19 FG against free-wheeling and depleted Golden State, Miller remained stubornly stuck on 4-9 FG from the third period on, finishing with over 31 minutes played.

3. Silver Linings

Aside from his temper tantrum, which was ill-advised but not without cause, Jefferson had a great game, willing himself through a nasty ankle turn that had him grimacing and limping for a long stretch of the third period to register 25 points and 12 rebounds. More significantly, he played very good defense, not only blocking four shots, but fouling a penetrator who had gotten past a gambling Love and showing harder than usual on the pick and roll.

Corey Brewer thrives on chaos and Golden State is usually a chaos factory. The most improved aspect of his game--effective, purposeful passing--was again on display via three assists. Then there was the signature Brewer gambit of hounding a young opponent having trouble corralling a rebound off the free throw, eventually swiping the ball and going in for a layup. While Stephen Jackson proved to be too big for Brewer to defend effectively, his effort was complete and his glue guy persona an appealing fit. Let's resist the temptation to siphon away what are already precious minutes for Brewer in the direction of Rodney Carney, who was minus -9 in 4:49.

And last but not least, Gomes at small forward.

 

Follow Britt's updates on Twitter at www.twitter.com/brittrobson

94 Reader Comments

Andy G (not verified)08:44am
Nov 12
Golden State was probably not a playoff team before Monta Ellis, Al Harrington and Corey Maggette got hurt. And all of those players would start for Minnesota, with Ellis possibly being our best player, were he on our team. Without those three guys, they run out a lineup of guys that I've hardly heard of, except for the college careers and past draft notes of Brandon Wright and Anthony Randolph. Nevertheless, the banged-up Warriors are able to beat Minnesota when 100% healthy (Zgoda writes that Collins is ready to go, so I'm assuming that's true) and coming off two full days rest. I've gotta tip my hat to Don Nelson for making the absolute most of that situation he's in. He might not have any titles, or even deep playoff runs to speak of, but he's great at game-planning to make something out of almost nothing. Aside from some somewhat flukish plays that sparked a string of fast-break buckets, GS looked like the better team last night that was more confident and savvy in half-court sets. I could spend some time calling for Wittman's head, but I suspect there will be enough comments to follow this one that do plenty of that. He couldn't afford to start 1-6, though, and I'd be surprised if he makes it past that Dec. 20 game vs. Houston. (Didn't Scott Skiles get canned on Christmas, last year?...It gives a stress-free holiday and some severance money for presents-shopping). It's hard to break down the basketball of a game like that, when so many of our team's tendencies are reinforced, with nothing new to add. Telfair couldn't shoot. Brewer couldn't really, either, but made up for some of it with hustle. Jefferson owned the low block. McCants took some terrible shots, but made some really good ones, too. Foye sucks at point guard, but shoots pretty well. Gomes makes tip-ins and other big baskets to keep us afloat. Smith has good stats, and yet I wish he'd never play for some reason. Anyway, I admire Britt's analysis, because it digs in deep when a regular viewing of the game for me left nothing to say that hasn't already been said.
drza44 (not verified)08:49am
Nov 12
I fell asleep with about 5 minutes left in the game, but when I did I actually thought the Wolves would pull this one out. I woke up this morning confident, and actually had a little stomach-punch moment when I went to the computer and checked out the boxscores. There are some (few) positives to how the team is playing so far this year. Big Al has been much better than last year at helping the team while contributing his stats, Love and Brewer both show signs of developing into intangible contributors on a solid team, and one could argue that the Wolves have been in every game so far and could conceivably have a better record. That said, I think the key when looking at the season so far was found in the last Trey: The Wolves have played a TERRIBLY easy schedule so far, and are 1 - 6. As Britt pointed out, the combined records of their 7 opponents outside of Wolves games is 9 - 27. If the Wolves can only "keep it close" when playing the absolute basement of the NBA, what on earth can we expect once they actually start playing some decent competition?
b (not verified)09:10am
Nov 12
Hah! I fell asleep, too! What does everyone make of Mike Miller not shooting? Is it him? Is it Wittman? Is it selfish teammates? Are the Wolves running Miller through multiple screens? Are they running any sets to get him open? I just don't get having the ball in the hands of everyone but your two most reliable scorers, ostensibly, Miller and Al, in crunchtime. I'm disappointed thus far. I wasn't expecting greatness at the beginning of this season, but 1-6, especially in the manner they've gone 1-6, is a disappointment.
levi (not verified)11:40am
Nov 12
I think Miller not shooting in the overtime might have had something to do with spending most of the 4th quarter on the bench -- along with Love and Brewer. That cannot be good for one's morale -- it would make me question jjust what the "Team" (coach & front office) is thinking. It certainly doesn't seem to have anything to do with winning basketball games. And his shooting hadn't been particularly hot anyways. Butthen, when he was out there, it was with Foye and McCants. In my opinion, those two either shoot the rock, or get the ball out of their hands as fast as they can (especially Foye) without much regard for passing with purpose. Either way, Miller wasn't getting much of a chance to score. Of course, neither was Jefferson. I feel OK with Miller continuing to work, snagging three rebounds. Would you feel better if he had just jacked up the ball every time he touched it? The Strib article quoted him as saying: "They went to a zone and we had a hard time getting our big fella the ball, and some of us players have to realize what the situation is." Diplomatically put, Mike.
Captain America (not verified)09:05am
Nov 12
Another season, same as before. The Wolves put up a whopping 135 shots to the Warriors 99! To lose this game, given such a shot disparity, seems inconceivable. Wittman death watch: 20 games
levi (not verified)09:58am
Nov 12
Howzabout merely fifteen games if they only win two or less over the next eight?
Nate (not verified)09:08am
Nov 12
Britt, you weren't the only one screaming at the television last night. Where was Kevin Love in the fourth quarter and overtime. As you noted, in the fourth quarter the wolves couldn't get Jefferson the ball and they couldn't rebound. These are two things that Love does rather well. What the hell is Wittman thinking? Ugh. Depressing.
Foley (not verified)09:15am
Nov 12
A question that has come up for me after watching this collapse and the Spurs game, how many games have the Wolves ever won at the buzzer? The Malik Sealy game, KG vs. the Sixers a couple of years ago, anything else? I go to half the home games and watch plenty on TV, and I can remember a ton of missed opportunities but just a couple of conversions. Any one know of a site that would have stats like that?
antonymous (not verified)11:55am
Nov 12
Not really the info you're looking for, but my favorite buzzer-beater moment was a couple of years ago against the Suns. It's at 2:58 of this "KG block mix".
drza44 (not verified)03:00pm
Nov 12
I always loved that moment too. A game-winning block or steal can be just as huge as a game-winning shot.
pagingstanleyroberts (not verified)04:39pm
Nov 13
Wally beat the Mavs in the pre-Spree days. Peeler hit a trey to beat Boston in 2000. KG hit one at the Clippers during their 03-04 year. I think Ricky Davis or Mark Blount hit one to beat the Celtics in KG's last year.
Erik (not verified)09:17am
Nov 12
Thank you for this breakdown. I can get now get on the fire Wittman bandwagon. I had been reluctant since I hadn't seen total ineptitude yet. I have now seen it. I was absolutely enraged with the lineup that we were playing at the end when it was so obvious that the big line up with Gomes at the 3 was vastly superior. After the game I was lying in bed trying to wrap my head around it. Wittman must have had a reason for it right? I thought maybe he was seeing something that I couldn't. I couldn't question his great basketball mind could I? You're opinion matching mine and I'm sure countless other Wolves fan's has allowed me to finally give up on Wittman ever being a capable coach.
Jim (not verified)09:18am
Nov 12
What struck me about last night's game was how much more athletic the Warriors were and how much more they appeared to enjoy playing basketball. The Wolves looked like a bunch of sadsacks on the floor. Jefferson has no business lighting up Foye like that if he wants to be leader other players enjoy playing with. Even without three of their top players, the Warriors were a better team. We can all rip on the substitution patterms and the stupid shots, but the Wolves don't have enough talent to win more than 25 games. If people want to dispute that, name another team in the league you wouldn't trade the Wolves entire roster for right now. The guard play so far has been amazingly bad. I know there are things people like about Love but after watching Foye, Telfair, Miller and McCants, it's hard for me to see what on Earth the Wolves were thinking on draft day when they passed on Mayo and Chalmers. If those two were starting for the Wolves right now the record would be better (couldn't be worse) and more importantly the team might actually be watchable.
Overdrive (not verified)10:31am
Nov 12
Perhaps Big Al Jefferson could take a page out of Tim Duncan's playbook. From Truehoop: Mike Finger of the San Antonio Express-News: "Tim Duncan has as much influence on his organization as any player in the league, and while that's not a recent development, the way he's exerted it has evolved. In the preseason, Duncan was a regular fixture in the coaches' huddles at the start of timeouts, and an hour before Tuesday's tipoff, he was conducting an impromptu film session with Roger Mason and George Hill in the locker room. Gregg Popovich said it's Duncan's empathy, more than anything else that makes him an effective leader. 'He allows people to feel comfortable,' Popovich said. 'He doesn't make them feel foolish.'" http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-36-42/Wednesday--First-Cup.html
stop-n-pop (not verified)09:30am
Nov 12
Witt ran out 11 players in the 1st. 11. Let me repeat it: 11. He yanked Love for Smith about 3 minutes into the game and I think I heard Don Nelson squeal with joy when this happened, as it took all of about 30 seconds for him to sub in the 6'10" Anthony Randolph. He then yanked Big Al after blowing a help defensive assignment and replaced him with Mark Madsen. This isn't such a big deal except that Witt was quoted in the Strib as saying they needed to go bigger and that Jason Collins just couldn't break the rotation. Collins was DNP . Madsen played 2 minutes. Surely Witt can see the dissonance here. In a weird way, I think he's sticking a finger in McHale's eye by running out a small ball lineup that just doesn't work with the style of play he is able to coach to. That's an admirable thing, I suppose. If there were any justice in the world than Glen Taylor would respond to this early season earthquake by tending to his own garden and making McHale coach this group of players to a .500 record in its remaining games. Hell, give him a 5 game warm up and let him go 35-35 down the stretch. Something needs to change with Witt and I'm hoping that performances against GSW and SacTown are examples of him forcing McHale's hand. He is stunting development at this point. He's really going to FUBAR Love and Brewer's play this year and I think that' s already obvious.
Jim (not verified)10:39am
Nov 12
I don't understand how is is obvious that Wittman is stunting Brewer's or anyones developent. Brewer's downfall is that he's a lousy shooter and ball handler and isn't strong enough to play in the paint. What is Wittman supposed to do about that? As for Love, people are overrating him because he hasn't played as poorly as some of the other guys. He's had some nice moments but hasn't shown anything to indicate he's going to become more than a slightly above average power forward in the NBA, meanwhile Mayo has been lighting it up on a team that last week beat the Warriors twice in four days. Wittman's no Phil Jackson but the Zen Master himself couldn't go 500 in the Western Conference with this crew, let alone McHale, who isn't willing to put his ass on the line to coach this team himself anyway.
Andy G (not verified)10:53am
Nov 12
I wanted Mayo on draft night, and still think he'd fit our personnel situation better than Love does, but I have to reply here, because I watched OJ's big 4th Quarter against Phoenix that capped off a 33 point 5 assist game. While it was a very good performance, especially for a rookie, his stats are being inflated by how often he has the ball in his hands. In that quarter, Memphis ran the Cleveland offense, which I consider the worst in the entire league. Cleveland has LBJ, so they win 50 games and have a chance in the playoffs, but their games are usually low-scoring, despite having the guy who many feel is the world's best player. Anyway, just like LBJ, Mayo gets to dribble around the top, wait for a ball screen and make a play. He's skilled at playing off that screen and he can shoot well from deep range, but he's not a special athlete like Derrick Rose who is going to "wow" you with highlights and carry you even on his off-nights. He's a bigger Sam Cassell or smaller Joe Johnson. Take your pick, and either is a good thing to have. But, don't get too misled by his big stat-performances, because he consistently gets to shoot or make what is likely to be an assist-potential pass on every possession as the shot clock winds down. He made three REALLY careless turnovers in that 4th Quarter, also and showed that he's got a ways to go. If Love played the minutes and got half the touches that Mayo is getting, he'd have good numbers. Maybe not as good as Mayo's, but his team would probably be doing better than Memphis. As it is, we're playing small-ball and Love never touches the rock unless he gets an offensive rebound. But yeah, it's going to sting a little to see OJ dropping 30+ on more than a few occasions this year.
plinytheelder (not verified)11:07am
Nov 12
I wanted to respond about Mayo earlier but haven't seen him play this year, so I was glad to read Andy G's post. I think either McCants or Foye, and a bunch of other guys, could put up those numbers in that set. Obviously it's too early to tell, but I still think the Wolves made the right decision on this one. From what I've seen of him (at USC) and from what I know of him, Mayo has "best player on a bad team" written all over him. Of course I could be dead wrong...time will tell.
Andy G (not verified)11:24am
Nov 12
I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing Mayo--and I have to disagree about McCants/Foye being able to put up those numbers. I think Shaddy has shown us time and time again that he's perfectly willing to insert himself into the role of ball-dominator/gunner, and it rarely leads to 33-point outings. Mayo got hot in the 4th and almost carried his team to a win over a 6-2 Phoenix team. But, I think it's an unreliable method to win consistently and if he's your go-to guy, you had better have some great defense and offensive rebounding for the nights that his jumper isn't falling. Memphis should shop Rudy Gay for a power forward. If they're going to play screen & roll basketball, they should at least have a good screener who can deliver on Mayo's passes.
drza44 (not verified)12:33pm
Nov 12
I've seen a lot of Wolves fans suggest that Mayo's stats are somewhat empty/misleading, and that he is doing the "put up good numbers on a bad team" thing. And perhaps this is true, because all season I've only watched about a quarter of play from him so I can't really comment one way or the other. Of course, that quarter was the 4th quarter of the Suns game the other night, which (regardless of the offense being run) was EXTREMELY impressive. Just looking at the box scores, one other thing would stand out to suggest Mayo isn't just stat padding on a bad team: he's scoring at a decent efficiency. For the season, Mayo is averaging 21 points on 45% from the field and 44% from 3-point range. None of those (except for the 3-point percentage) are outstanding, but they are all reasonable numbers for a high-volume perimeter scorer (most shoot lower percentages across the board). But when you don't count the first game of the year (Mayo's first as a pro, on the road, at a tough defense...give him a mulligan) those numbers go up to 23 ppg on 49% from the field and 53% from 3-point range. In other words, his big scoring nights aren't just because of volume-shooting, he's scoring pretty efficiently. 7 games into a career, that's pretty impressive.
plinytheelder (not verified)12:49pm
Nov 12
Interesting point. Tells me I should probably shut up until I see him play.
Andy G (not verified)12:49pm
Nov 12
It is impressive. I just think that a Love-Mayo comparison needs to include the major fact that OJ is everything in the current Memphis offense, and Love is hardly involved in Minnesota's--in the 20-25 minutes he even gets to play. You could say that Love doesn't deserve as many minutes as OJ, but anyone watching the Wolves knows that's not true. Imagine if Love had Jefferson's role in our offense. That would probably allow for a good comparison with Mayo.
stop-n-pop (not verified)12:18pm
Nov 12
A couple of things: Brewer is significantly improved this year. Be it improved confidence, ball-handling, whatever, he's showing he belongs out there. Last year he lost significant minutes to Snyder and this year it's Carney and a crowded 2/3. With Brewer off the court, the Wolves are giving up 118.8 points/100 possessions compared to 107.9 when he is on the court. He can't shoot jump shots but he has shown a nice ability to run the pick and roll and pass in the lane. How is he used? The team doesn't utilize his ability to play in transition, they jerk him around in the lineup when they most need a defensive stopper (where was he in the 4th against GSW? Against Roy in the 4th?) and they don't run anything approaching an offensive set that plays to his (and, coincidentally, Foye's) strengths: quick, dribble penetration. I think you're wildly off on Love. From PER to Roland Rating to eff to +/1 to adj +/- to...well, you'd be hard pressed to find a stat set that has him as anything other than the Wolves' best or 2nd best player. Quite simply, the team scores more and defends better when he is on the court. Granted, it's very early in the season but if he ends the year with a PER in the neighborhood of 17-18 while posting a positive adj +/- while maintaining his rebound rate and ppr, then you're already looking at a more complete player than Big Al. Yet here we have Witt already jerking him around in the lineup; keeping him off the court in key situations where rebounds are needed. I think you can place the Portland and GSW losses squarely at the feet of not playing Love (and Brewer) in the 4th. Against Portland, the Wolves' best man defender didn't see the court in the 4th. Love sat out the first 5:10 and watched as the Blazers made several key rebounds against Smith. Both Love and Brewer sat out the entire 4th against GSW. In both rebounding and defense, this is inexcusable and it's also depriving 2 of their young players from court time that they should be getting.
Just a Fan (not verified)12:38pm
Nov 12
SnP, Actually, I think Brewer's jump shot has improved significantly. His release is much more consistent (which also shows up in his FT%) When his feet are set in the corner, his 3 pt shoot looks really good. What he still has not mastered is shooting on the move. To me, it is a lower body issue - not enough strength to combat the lower body contact that happens all the time in the NBA. But I have noticed he is stronger and have seen less "flailing" this year. I still think he will be a Tayshaun Prince clone in a couple of years. Spot on regarding Love.
Jim (not verified)01:52pm
Nov 12
Are you guys serious? Brewer is shotting 38 percent from the floor and 28 percent from three point range. That's up from 37 and 20 percent last year so I'd say if he is improving it will take him another 10 years or so to get into a respectable range for a starting small forward in the NBA. All in all he's getting an extra two minutes of burn a game and has not improved in any significant offensive statistical category so far this season (4 boards up from 3.7). He does some great things on the floor, such as get loose balls, but none of it makes up for the fact that he's a glaring liability in half court offensive sets. Last night he was ignored completely at times by the Warriors. If people are still wondering why him and Telfair didn't play in the 4th quarter last night it's because neither can shoot and the other three guys pay for it when they're on the floor. As for Love, I think we should resume the arguments about his worth once he gets some big minute games. If people think this team would be significantly better if he and Brewer played 40 minutes a game, I suspect it's wishful thinking. And I think it's hilarious that people are penalizing Mayo for putting up good numbers on a bad team, since whatever Love does he does for an even worse team, same goes with Jefferson ect. Let's judge Love and Mayo on production and wins because that's all that matters.
Jim (not verified)02:18pm
Nov 12
By the way Prince has never shot less than 45 percent from the field so it may be time to shelve the Brewer-Prince comparisons.
Just a Fan (not verified)03:47pm
Nov 12
In his 2nd year in the league(03-04), Prince's numbers for 82 games. 32.9 min/game, FGM/FGA/% 4.1-8.8 .467 3FGM/3FGA/% 0.7-1.9 .363 FTM/FTA/% 1.3-1.7 .766 for 10.3 pts/game Let's see if Wittman plays Brewer for 33 min a game first, then lets evaluate the stats line closer to the end of the year. I am still betting it will be a very favorable comparison.
stop-n-pop (not verified)02:20pm
Nov 12
I don't see the jump shot improvement and I didn't say so. I'm also not wondering why they didn't play him and Bassy in the 4th. He is making up for it in terms of on/off numbers and if the NBA had a decent VORP stat, I'm sure he'd fare well there too. His eFG is up, his OrebR is up, trebR is up, astR is up, toR down, and his has a much improved ORtg compared to last season (+9) while being the team's best man defender. He has made strides on the offensive end this year and you can see it in his numbers: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/breweco01.html http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/Timberwolves.htm http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIN7D.HTM Regarding Love, I'd like to see him get more minutes. I think the big flaw with Mayo/Love comparisons is that this isn't a Roy/Foye deal where they play the same position. They couldn't be more different players and I think you'll have to look at them in terms of what they meant to their team on and off the court and possession-based individual stats. I also think it's been pretty clear that the push here has been for targeted minutes for both players, not net playing time. The point about more minutes for Love and Brewer (and getting back to the original point of contention: their development) is that they do certain things well and they are not being used in situations where these positives would really help the squad. Say what you will about Brewer's jump shot, but the team is better with him on the court than with him off, especially on defense. The same goes for Love. Both of these players also rebound better than their replacements. Is Brewer being ignored on the perimeter? At times yes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if the offense adjusts and he is still able to provide a net on/off advantage to his team compared to his replacement player.
Jim (not verified)02:45pm
Nov 12
You're right, I agree both should get more minutes. I don't mean to rip your arguments because they are obviously backed up. I would still argue that the team probably won't be much better in terms of wins and loses if Brewer and Love play more however because I think both are flawed players, especially in terms of how they fit in with the rest of the squad. For example, Love is the same position as Jefferson, Brewer is an uptempo player while Jefferson is half court, ect - those points I think we're in agreement on. In general the roster is a mess, which I'm positive we agree on :)
stop-n-pop (not verified)03:14pm
Nov 12
I can agree to that. I also get what you're saying about them being flawed players. I've said here before that I think they both have the potential to be upper-level glue guys. I'd argue that you don't sneeze at players like this and that the real problem with the Wolves is not so much that the roster is a complete mess, but that it is utilized in a manner that doesn't fit the talents of the guys on board. They're still a relatively bad team if this happens (with wins in the 30s if things go well) but they do have some things to build on, namely guys like Love and Brewer who, I believe, have a ceiling to do what they do better than guys like Jefferson, Foye, and Miller do what they do...if that makes any sense. Jefferson is a very, very nice offensive scorer and defensive rebounder but he's a very limited player on defense and in transition; probably just as much as Brewer is with his jumper and ball handling. Foye can't run the point or go left. These are some pretty gaping holes that I'm not sure can be plugged to the extent that Brewer and Love can hopefully do with their shortcomings, especially Love. Does this mean I think that Jefferson isn't the cornerstone of a winning team? I don't know. It does mean that I think they need to choose a direction and go with it. My gut feeling with Big Al is that he's not the guy most fans are looking for but I have nothing to back that hunch up and pragmatically, he'll never be moved so there's little sense in talking about it. That being said, if I were fantasy GM, there's not a player I'd take off the table with this squad....and *that's* probably the biggest indictment of the roster.
Andy G (not verified)03:53pm
Nov 12
Hardly anybody outside this state would agree with me, but I think Jefferson is better than Amare Stoudamire. Amare will get MVP votes, though, because he plays with Steve Nash and Shaq. Defensive support and an offensive playmaker: great things to have for a scoring power forward. Minnesota has no center to speak of, except the golf-cart flipping Collins who may or may not be healthy. We don't play our only point guard enough minutes and he's hardly Steve Nash on his best day. It shouldn't be too difficult to solve the center problem, but we need new blood in the FO to gain enough common sense to do it. A great PG would need to be taken in the draft lottery. Otherwise we can cross our fingers with Telfair's jumpshot practice.
Xand (not verified)09:39am
Nov 12
I apologize in advance for the lengthy missive, but I feel it's warranted at this point: Have we given up all hope of ever having a regime change in the front office? Would this type of continued incompetence be acceptable in any other field? I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I can't help but feel like I've given this group of clowns more chances than they've deserved and yet they continue to let me down. I feel like I've earned the right to complain by giving them the benefit of the doubt more often than not, but everyone has their limits. How far can this sad excuse for an organization push the fans before they hit their breaking point? True, they've made solid moves of late, but must we be silent in calling for change solely because things have seemingly improved from "completely horrible" to "slightly horrible?" The team is still being coached into irrelevance by a guy whose career record tells us all we need to know about his abilities, and yet, even if he were to be dismissed, with so much old blood still in the organization I can't help but feel we would just see another member of the fabled country club appointed as coach (Sichting anyone?) while McHale continues to draft "his guys." It's not just trading Foye for Roy, or not picking Gay, or taking McCants over Granger etc. etc. It's moves like trading Mayo, the clear fan favorite, for Kevin Love, only to have your incompetent head coach (who you hired), refuse to play him because of his inexplicable love for small-ball. Nothing done by this organization seems to make sense. Players don't seem to know their rolls because they aren't utilized as they should be. We refuse to go all-in on guys like McCants, who continues to be yanked from games when he should either be given the keys to the offense or shipped out for a player that fits our system (easier said than done, as I can't define our "system".). I guess I don't even know where to go with this, but I'm fed up. I feel as if I've been as devout a fan as anyone to this franchise, repeatedly forgiving the blatant F U's sent to the fan base by the front office, but I'm not sure I can take much more unless some changes are made. Am I the only one who feels this way? Mchale needs to disassociate himself from the team, and Wittman needs to be fired to make way for a coach with a track record of success, but at this point that just seems like a pipe dream.. It seems like those in charge are actively trying to create a team that is no fun to follow. It's like we're all so used to incomptence being the status quo that we've given up all hope of things ever changing. Yet draft after draft we make poor choices and we continue to field a coach who is obviously in over his head. When will it end? Someone give me something to be positive about, I implore you!
stop-n-pop (not verified)09:47am
Nov 12
Well put. No matter what they do, there will still be McHale up there with Hoiberg being groomed to take his spot. Outside blood is needed and it is needed now.
Cheap Seats Erick (not verified)09:47am
Nov 12
Thanks for staying up to watch West Coast games on a weeknight so I don't have to! Two questions: One of the morning radio guys (name rhymes with Dandy Raver) was tearing into McCants for his shot selection/selfishness during last night's game. Said it cost the Wolves the game. Was it really any worse than usual? Secondly, is it possible that Miller is pouting in an effort to get traded to a contender? I know it's early, but he seems to be the most tradeable player on the roster and -- albeit only having seen about 1/3 of the action thus far this season -- I would generally characterize his style of play as disinterested.
NBAinBuffalo (not verified)09:55am
Nov 12
Britt, I've been a fan of your Wolves writing since the CP days (and the acronymn has nothing to do with the fact that I voted for the "Socialist" Barack Obama!). Your pieces are consistently spot-on and decisive, and I love that you don't mince words (see "psychologically crippling contest" in the opening sentence for just one of many examples). I'd like to ask one question about behind-the-scenes work with the Wolves to see if you might have any insights, and this gets to my sense that while McHale has no doubt moved about like a blunder-asaurus over the years, many of his recent moves (to me) have been at least decent. One huge problem I have is player development, or lack thereof. I don't think we can hang this all on McHale consistently drafting duds. A large part has to do with what Witt & his assists are doing in offseason, pre-season, and between games. Who, for example, is teaching the guards how to create space and throw an entry pass? I even hoped last night that Witt would bring Ollie in to try to teach the youngsters how to get Al the rock in the final minutes and/or OT. Beyond that, I'm especially worried that a good percentage of rooks drafted in the 3-15 range the past few years seem to be making decent year to year progress for other teams while almost every one of ours seems to be treading water (and with McCants, barely). Is it something in the way that Whit & his assists work with players, particular those not in the power forward slot (which I assume is more McHale's teaching, and where I see more progress--i.e., Al but also Rhino and, already KLove), that is hampering their ability not to become All-Starts but simply to improve? Is the current Wolves coaching staff unable to develop guards? Anyway, thanks much from a first-time poster (and a kid during the NBA-in-Buffalo heydays... go Randy Smith!)
plinytheelder (not verified)10:19am
Nov 12
Great Braves reference - "McAdoo from the baseline!"
Just a Fan (not verified)10:03am
Nov 12
I did not watch the entire game last night - just was not up to it. There was no talent difference between the two teams last night - in fact - one could argue, quite successfully, that the TWolves had the more talented roster of player available. When the more talented team loses, there are typical 3 causes. They were out worked (I thought the effort was there), they were unlucky (did not see evidence of that) or they were out coached (BINGO!). Nelson has a style of play that is ingrained into every player on the entire roster. Each player understands how they are suppose to play when their name is called. It is not a style that is necessarily going to win every game, but it is a fondation to build from. What is the TWolves style of play? Anyone? Anyone? Because I surely don't know. Is it small ball? Smash mouth ball? Run the floor? Forceful defense? What we have is a team player who play their own preferred style when our coach randomly calls their number. Not to criticize but to illustrate, Craig Smith play Craig Smith ball when called on - he does not play TWolves ball (whatever that is). Until we establish a fundamental style of play, and stick to it, we will never improve. Wittman played 11 players in the 1st quarter. Need I say more. If I were the owner, Wittman would be fired today, if for no other reason than how he deprived 2 future franchise players of crunch time experience in the 4th quarter/OT of a meaningless game. Finally, I expect Wittman to feel more and more pressure to record W's which is only going to make his substitution patterns as he morphs from developing players to saving his job.
Depressed (not verified)10:10am
Nov 12
I couldn't watch this game last night, but of course thanks to Britt I always feel like I understand what happened when circumstances force me away from League Pass. On Monday night I watched a young rookie who looks like a future All-Star fill it up in the fourth quarter. He was draining threes, getting to the basket, and demanding (frankly, it was hogging) the ball while making it clear to his teammates, including another future All-Star, to get out of the f*cking way. That player's name is O.J. Mayo. It's early enough and clear enough to say it: we gave away a great player on draft day. Again. Actually, two. I'd be significantly happier with a Chalmers-Mayo backcourt right now than what we have. The Chalmers mistake was awful. Never doubt Kevin McHale's ability to kill the hopes of this franchise.
plinytheelder (not verified)10:17am
Nov 12
Like Britt, Petersen, and most of the posters, I am dumbfounded by Love's lack of playing time. Let me just add a new reason: I learned in about 8th grade that the way to attack a 2-3 zone is from the middle of the zone, i.e. the free throw line. And the best guy to get the ball to in that position? Preferably a 4 who can handle the ball and is a good passer. In other words, Kevin Love is a born 2-3 zone buster. I realize Nellie is a genius, and no doubt that zone must have had a few weird wrinkles. But from where I was sitting, it still looked like a 2-3 formation. Am I wrong in this? If someone saw something different please let me know. (Wish I'd taped it so I could go back and look more closely.) As such, I can't help but join in the anti-Wittman comments. Not only did Love play well when he was in, aside from picking up 2 quick fouls, but here was the perfect opportunity to put him in against a D that his skill set is literally made for. Get him the ball at the free thrown line, let him turn around, force the guy in the middle to come up, and then hit Al down low or someone spotting up on the baseline. Not only this, but I have to disagree slightly with Britt's take on Foye's lack of PG skills, inability to get Jefferson the ball, etc. This kind of zone is set up precisely to make it hard to get the ball to a low-post scorer; the lanes just aren't there. Unless you do it from the free throw line...and Foye, can't remember which game (maybe the 2nd Kings game?), showed a real ability against a zone to get the ball to a big guy flashing up to the line. Did it on 2 straight possessions if I remember right. The problem last night was that no one was doing that: instead, Wittman was telling his players to drive. Fine, but as the results showed, that's really hard against a zone: the best way to attack a zone is with the pass. A pass to the middle of the zone, followed up by passes down low, or back out to the perimeter, etc etc etc. Oh and Britt I think you're slightly mistaken about the lazy Foye pass to Jefferson, I don't think it was stolen, didn't it go out of bounds and back to the Wolves? (Making Jefferson's response even more incomprehensible.)
Xand (not verified)10:23am
Nov 12
If I remember correctly, Jefferson had his guy sort of sealed kind of far out on the left block, and Foye got stuck lobbing the pass way up high so Al's defender, who was quasi-fronting him, was able to sneak around and pick the pass off. It was a very lazy, poorly aimed pass typical of Foye when he's not paying attention. Might have happened differently though, I think I fell asleep like 3 times throughout the game :)
plinytheelder (not verified)10:31am
Nov 12
Yeah I remember it being down to the left block, if I remember it was Biedrins who came abound on the baseline side...I just thought he deflected the pass out of bounds. Anyways I agree, it was a poor pass either way.
Nate (not verified)10:40am
Nov 12
the pass definitely was swatted out of bounds by the GS defender. Wolves got the ball back.
A.K. Agikamik (not verified)10:39am
Nov 12
I usually love west coast swings because I get the kids (and wife) to bed and I can watch uninterrupted without already knowing the outcome. After last night, I have to reconsider. First, a quick Vikings-Wolves comparison. After blowing a lead late Sunday, the Vikings were able to pull it together and earn a win in what felt like a must-win situation. Had the Packers made the last-minute field goal they narrowly missed, Wylf and Chilly would be on the hot seat. Instead, the Vikes sit atop the NFC North. Last night, had the Wolves made their last second 3 (or any of the other eight shots down the stretch) I'd be heaving a sigh of relief and hoping for more wins in November. Instead, I'm balling up the towel getting ready to throw it in. The Wolves are a .143 ball club less than 10% into the season. What can they do right now that can actually help? I cannot remember a game in the Wittman era where the team pulled out a win because of solid coaching moves down the stretch. The dearth of actual wins in the Wittman era should make these examples, if they exist, easy to catalog, but still, I can't think of one. Contrast that with Don Nelson, down three starters, first moving big, then moving zone to force the Wolves out of their game. The moves themselves were fairly basic - a good high school coach might make the same moves. But they seem beyond Wittman's reach. How is that possible? For one thing, Nelly had to do the prep work to make sure his guys knew how to manage a zone and make Big Al inaccessible. As other posters have said, its hard to see how Wittman is developing the players and team that has been assembled. So what can the Wolves do? First, relieve Wittman of his duties. What's the next move? I agree with the posters who suggest putting McHale back on the bench. He did a seemingly nice job in his limited stint. Glen Taylor ought to give McHale two choices: coach or leave the organization. Glen's gotta be feeling some pressure, perhaps from minority shareholders, perhaps from the economic squeeze (I know, I know, but billionaires are people too) and from the disinterested fan base that will continue turning its back on a woefully substandard product. Let Freddie take over the FO (SnP I feel you on this one, but Glen doesn't have it in him to do a total remake at this point). To be honest, with McHale on the bench the slogan "See what they can do" would actually resonate for me the next 70 plus games.
stop-n-pop (not verified)11:59am
Nov 12
I guess I just believe there is a fatal flaw with this club in the front office . There's simply too much baggage to move forward without an outside set of eyes. They're probably hemorrhaging money to a point where they won't want to deal with new blueprints and other assorted marketing bullshit. They have a core that can be built on but they need to make a clear choice with the direction of the personnel and system. They built a club built on inside/out and high/low and they don't run an offense accordingly. They built a club that is geared for offense and they have a coach who doesn't seem to be able to coach offense and is instead worried about getting them to play defense. They have guys like Foye, Brewer, and Love who would fit nicely in an uptempo game yet their main gun (Jefferson) sucks in transition. There is *some* direction here but there is also a good deal of flying by the seat of their pants. The really sad thing (for me) is that they could trade away Jefferson tomorrow and it wouldn't bug me one bit. At least they would be choosing a direction instead of patching together a bunch of stuff that doesn't work in the system (if it can be called that) they gobbed together. I think there are three ways you can go with this club: 1- Up tempo small ball with Love and Jefferson at the 4/5. This approach requires a coach who focuses on the offensive side of the ball. It will require a new backcourt with a point who can shoot and run the offense and an off guard who can penetrate and defend. 2- Slow tempo pound-it-to-Al ball. Love becomes a bench player and the Wolves find the best defensive center available. This system still requires a point who can shoot. They would still need a #2 scorer to make this work as defensive centers who can be productive offensively don't grow on trees. 3- Blow it up. Trade Al and Miller for whatever you can get, commit to Foye as the 3rd guard and build around Love and Brewer, 2 guys who have the potential to be upper-level glue guys. Admit that Al isn't the cornerstone and hope for the best with a ton of cap space in 2010 with a lot of draft picks. I'm pretty ambivalent towards all 3 options at this point. I think option 3 means that they've brought on a new GM and he's been given a green light to do whatever they can to change the team, so I guess I like that one the best. Anything they do will ultimately have to be judged by the changes in the front office. That's where the deed needs to be done. Short of that, I'd just like to see them pick a direction and stick with it.
RhinoLove (not verified)12:27pm
Nov 12
SNP, you are a true voice of reason. Is there any doubt we need a clean slate? McHale on the bench is ludicrous. He created this mess and we want to give him MORE responsibility?!?! Between the impending economic depression and the multi-year stretch of soul sucking ineptitude and resulting ass-kickings, we are literally on the verge of losing this team. The Wolves will fold or move if we stay on this current path...within three years. There is no doubt in my mind. And what is truly sad is that a competent GM could probably have turned this team around years ago, and still could. I can't even bring myself to comment on the games or the players anymore. Sorry guys. I just can't do it. It just seems delusional to count on this front office and this group of players going anywhere. Go ahead and mock me, but I have been cheering on this team for 20 years...2/3 of my entire life...always hopeful that we'd improve and always finding enough reasons to stay encouraged. That feeling is gone. We are just plain bad and bad without direction. I can't stomach this any longer and I am calling 'bullshit'.
stop-n-pop (not verified)12:46pm
Nov 12
To be perfectly honest, if McHale was given a "coach or leave" ultimatum I'd be for it 100% if it removed him from his spot in the front office and it also contained an ultimatum to go 35-35 over the last 70 games of the year. It would be poetic justice to watch him not be able to even pull a Casey...getting a .500 record with 3 wins in a row followed by 4 losses and a win...and so on and so forth. I think the only way he gets fired or walks away this year is if he's put in the coaching slot and fails. I don't think he'd get fired but maybe it would be humbling enough for him to walk away for good. I'd support damn near anything if it meant that a new front office came in. I do think that this year is going in such a way that it could put the team on the path to Seattle...which is scary. Hopefully we're beat there by Memphis or NOLA.
A.K. Agikamik (not verified)01:23pm
Nov 12
SnP: So as I was drafting my response, you came around to some of the beauty of my position. Welcome aboard the McHale Express! Usually you have to kick guys upstairs to get them out of the way. This time Kev just has to move down about 10 rows.
stop-n-pop (not verified)04:35pm
Nov 12
Hey, I'll support anything that hastens him getting out of the arena alltogether. It's time to end Papa Glen's fantasy Celtics camp experiment once and for all.
A.K. Agikamik (not verified)01:17pm
Nov 12
Rhino: I feel your pain. 18 months ago on the FAN I predicted the end of the Wolves in Minnesota within a few years. Doogie thought I was certifiable, but I stand by it. That's a good subject for another day (soon). SnP: Your suggestions are good ones. The trouble, though, is that meaningful personnel moves and new blood are extremely unlikely in the near term. I'm talking about what to do to salvage this season before we are 2-12 and the comparisons to last season's start hitting a fever pitch (they are in crescendo mode now). Wittman can make a nice first chair assistant someplace else. It took Witt 83 games to win 19 as Wolves head coach. You'll recall McHale went 19-12 in his stint. Any immediate changes would have to be made by Glen Taylor, a man predisposed to (blind) loyalty and an apparent distaste for new people. Knowing Taylor and his modus operandi and seeing a huge potential upgrade on the bench, this seems reasonable from my Rube perspective. It has the added benefit of not impacting the positive cap position coming into view (which major moves now would) and doesn't require Glen to pay double for a head coach (which bringing in a new guy would). And introducing the head coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves... KEVIN McHALE.
jianfu (not verified)03:27pm
Nov 12
Given the make-up of the team, I believe the best path to success right now is option #1 (up-tempo featuring a Love/Jefferson frontcourt). As such, let me throw Rockets assistant coach Elston Turner's name into my coaching wishlist. Howard was also with Adelman for 6 seasons during his Sacramento days, and say what you want Adelman, the guy knows how to build an offense around versatile bigs. (I have to think Adelman would love Love.) So just from that standpoint, a guy who's cut his teeth in such an environment would be intriguing. My concern is the Wolves are surely not considered a plum job by any coaching candidate worth his salt, right? And you know Casey will get some phone calls. I'm sure Dwayne might have something to say about the GM, or getting overruled on his draft preference, or the team's failure to find personnel to match how he wanted play, or the general lack of accountability/culture of finger pointing.... I'm not saying their quite as toxic as Al Davis and the Raiders might be for coaching candidates, but it might be close.
drza44 (not verified)03:31pm
Nov 12
A key phrase in your point, though, is "versatile bigs". Adelman's system requires a big man that can pass, as Webber, Vlade, Brad Miller, and even Yao are solid-to-great passers for big men. Jefferson seems improved in that respect, but I'm not sure he's improved there enough to be a perfect fit in an Adelman-style offense. On the other hand, Love might really be a perfect fit, so in your scenario he might be the big selling point for an Adelman-style run-the-offense-through-the-big-man scheme.
stop-n-pop (not verified)04:33pm
Nov 12
I think the Casey firing kills them on a number of levels: from his still-being-paid contract to personnel decisions to the way the country club treats some of its former members to...well, it goes on and on and I can't imagine an up-and-coming assistant wanting to come here. I think they may have to go to the college ranks to fill a long term slot. That could be a disaster all by itself. I guess I just don't know where they should go with this decision. So much of coaching is behind the scenes and there's really no way to make a judgment about this sort of thing unless they are so obviously inept on the court. Maybe the D-League guy will get a look.
Nate (not verified)10:42am
Nov 12
To change the subject from this rather depressing game... According to ESPN, the Clippers are making Chris Kaman available. Would he not be the perfect complement to Al Jefferson in the post? He's a got a big contract, but not max money. The wolves could give the Clippers cap relief (Cardinal, Booth, etc), a young forward (Gomes or Smith) and a draft pick (yes, another #1 to the Clippers). I think Kaman would really change this wolves team. Anyway, likely useless speculation.
stop-n-pop (not verified)11:42am
Nov 12
Nein, Kaman ist nicht gut. :) Bogut yes, Kaman no. Plus, I wouldn't trust the FO to deal with the Clips again.
SettlingForJumpers (not verified)10:48am
Nov 12
As certain as the sun came up this morning, I have a major issue with the way Telfair was yanked in the third quarter. Taking him out was a good move. Leaving him out was not. I understand the notion that Foye was playing well, but once the offense stagnated down the stretch, he was useless at the one. Granted Bassy was 0/5, but unlike Foye or McCants, he was given no opportunity to play through his rough patch. And unlike Shaddy, he was not indiscriminately jacking up shots (a trey with 18 seconds on the clock and a nine point lead?). But Sebastian got the quick and permanent hook early in the third. Telfair may have been able to provide a spark when GS went zone. Missing the first five shots doesn't mean you'll miss the next five, and, at the very least, he would have been able to probe the Warrior's zone, find the seams and get the ball to Al, Gomes and Foye in position to score. Wittman needed a true PG out there. The same thing happened in Portland. Look, it's clear Bassy has more upside at PG than Foye. He just needs to shoot more consistently and it won't happen unless he gets a little leeway as he's doing everything else. Foye is a combo guard off the bench and can excel in that role. He definitely earned the right to stay on the floor, but he should have been playing off the ball at crunch time. McCants, not Bassy, should have been on the pine.
Blakeley (not verified)12:14pm
Nov 12
Every time I see Whitman flail around on the sideline as a player is going for an offensive rebound or a shot is bouncing around the rim, I can't help but think that this is a guy that is completely unable to make comprehensive decisions during the heat of the game. It's like when you play Mario Kart with your little sister and she leans to the right to make a turn as opposed to actually moving the joystick. I have no doubt that Whitman is right now currently watching game tape saying to himself "OH GEEZ, I FORGOT ABOUT LOVE!", but the fact that he didn't make the switch last night, and the fact that he continues to forget basic coaching principles game after game proves to me that he is completely inept as an NBA or even college coach. As for a time frame, I firmly believe he's going to be fired sooner rather then later. Jerry Zgoda on the strib was already eluding to a potential change, and he's been pretty spot on with some of his predictions before (see the insertion of Love/Telfair into the starting line-up). If the over/under right now was Dec 1st, I'd take the under and feel pretty comfortable about that bet. No idea who they'll get to replace him though. Jerry Sichting seems like the route McHale would take, but I can't imagine that exciting anyone in the fan base. All in all, I think I'm just depressed about this situation. Whatever happens, McHale will be the GM of this team until The Mayor takes over. This will always be true as long as Glen Taylor is the owner. Yet if Glen Taylor sells the team...Who is going to buy them? With our current stadium deal you can say for certain that NO ONE in Minnesota will pick them up, and we'd probably be just a few years away from seeing Kevin Love in a Seattle Supersonics jersey. So here we are, stuck on the same rudderless ship, with the same unyieldingly loyal owner, with the same unyieldingly moronic Captain. I JUST WANT TO WANT A TEAM THAT'S FUN TO CHEER FOR, WITH A COACH THAT KNOWS MORE ABOUT BASKETBALL THEN I DO! ugh
Cheezy B (not verified)12:15pm
Nov 12
Well I had the wolves +5.5 so I can't be that mad. I'm really disappointed in Shaddy's play down the stretch. He missed an open trey to end regulation, he also jacked up a trey with 20 seconds on the shot clock in overtime and he turned the ball over on the last posession. He projects a Stephen Jackson persona but he doesn't back it up. You would think that a guy that let his teammates down would steel himself to not screw up again, but not Shaddy. Overall this was a typical Wolves loss, it reminded me of the Spurs loss. They blew a lead down the stretch and I think we all saw it coming. This wolves team has no "killer instinct," something that I think comes from veteran leadership. They were content to sit on their lead and try to run the clock out instead of doing what winners do, go for the throat.
doubleplusgood (not verified)12:59pm
Nov 12
I can't say anything that hasn't already been said before, but it's time to move McCants. I've heard all the arguments: silky jumper, gets to the line, instant offense, but at what cost? Over the years, I, too, have been pulling for him to become the player he teases us over and over that he could potentially become. Watching the game last night, his play was terrible. How many times did he jack up a 3 early in the shot clock with no ball movement? How many times during a game does he miss a shot only to commit a cheap reaching in foul as the other team brings the ball up court? With the game in the balance he drives the lane on a 1 on 2 to and misses a difficult layup instead of pulling up & getting a good shot. Wittman yanked him after one ill advised 3 late in the game, only to play him in the last 2 minutes and all of overtime. I understand no one was hitting shots the last 12 minutes of the game, but he's proven time and time again not to be a clutch player. Yes, he got to the line more than anyone on the team, but his shot selection, defense, and ability to stop any ball movement, hurt this team. His body language his entire career is of someone who believes he's above the team. Like he doesn't understand why he gets benched when he jacks up a 3 and then turns around and commits a cheap foul 5 seconds later. He doesn't play within the system, doesn't make his teamates better, doesn't play defense. He's a smaller, streakier Corey Maggette: a guy who goes for his and is uncoachable. It's called addition by subtraction. Can anyone honestly say he's improved at anything over his 3 years here? Shot selection: no Defense: no Attitude: no Consistent Jumper: no. For as much as people have been hating on Foye early in the season, and his play warranted some of it, I was happy to see him be able to play his way out of it. Not a great shooting night, but he heated up later in the game. Yes, he was 0-6 from 3, but at least the majority of them were within the flow of the offense and at some point he's got to start hitting some of them and keep the defense honest. He had 8 assists, 4 rebounds, and his 2 steals he also converted into points. I think this game was very important for Foye's development, as Britt pointed out. Compare Foye's night to Shaddy (no rebounds, 3 assists in 8 fewer minutes) and you saw someone in Foye, who kept battling and found other ways to contribute when his shot wasn't going down. You'll never see Shaddy fill up the stat sheets when his shot isn't going down. Give Foye some time, he's played a year and a half. It easily takes 3 years for rookie to blossum. Look at Jermaine O'Neal on the bench in Portland, Tracy McGrady in Toronto, Danny Granger. The list goes on. In response to the Love/Mayo comparisons: put Shaddy on Memphis and he's OJ Mayo. Jack it up because we're terrible. What does that get you? Love may never be an elite player, but I already see a winner, something the T-wolves lack throughout their roster. A guy who'll do whatever he can to help the team. You can't compare Love and Mayo right now. How many plays were run for Love last night? Zero. Give him some time to develop his game and then we'll see. He's skilled offensively. He's already contributing more to the team than half the roster as a 20 year old, undersized power forward. Sorry for the rant. Love your insight, Britt.
midlife crisis (not verified)03:03pm
Nov 12
Can you realy say McCants is the biggest problem on this team? I'm not thrilled with many aspects of McCants, but at least he's not hopelessly out of position, due to McHale, like Randy Foye and Randy Whitman. With McCants, we can talk about moving him, but it's not like he has great value. The easiest way to improve the team is by removing the incompetent PG and PF, Foye and Gomes respectively. Perhaps removing the coach would come as well. And while mentioning the coach, I should digress into a quick Britt rebuttal. Coach McHale was only our second best coach because he had players with defined positions. With this mess, he would likely be as befuddled as Randy.
levi (not verified)09:12pm
Nov 12
As one of the more vocal McCants critics, I will answer your question thusly: No, McCants is not the biggest problem on this team. Simply replacing him with another "2" (in his price range, anyways) does not fix what's wrong with the Wolves. If I was magically subbed in for Kevin McHale, here's what I'd be thinking: Number one problem: -------------------------------- The Wolves do not have any NBA-worthy centers (or if Collins is one, they won't play him -- or Ratliff and Doleac before him). So, at virtually every position except PG are players playing one size up from where their physical attributes would indicate. Or if a guy is playing his "natural" position, he's undersized by NBA standards. Now, you can sometimes get away with one guy being small if the two guys beside him are bigger than the average, but two relative minows, and especially three, just doesn't hold up for 48 minutes in this league. Number two problem: --------------------------------- The Wolves do not have a PG who handles the ball with aplomb in traffic, is able to run an offense, makes the open shot, or drive to the hoop. Don't forget play defense too. I'm not even sure that they have anyone who can do two out of the five. I'm barely convinced that Foye can even do one of them. Number three problem: ---------------------------------- If there is some way to get acceptable results out of the players that the Wolves have assembled, it does not appear to me that Wittman is the guy to show us how it's done. Now, I'm not at practices, I'm not close enough to hear what he says during games. But he didn't seem to have "it" when he was here as an assistant coach, and he still looks like an assistant who probably needs to be replaced.
stop-n-pop (not verified)07:37am
Nov 13
I'll float this...and I'm not really sure if I believe any of it but I've been thinking about it and it's certainly a good Devil's Advocate subject: Number one problem: ------------------------------ Buyer's remorse with Big Al. After years of having KG on the squad the Wolves FO took the best they could get in a trade and locked in a player to the role of KG without him being nearly a complete enough player to walk into the gaping KG-sized hole. He can really, really, really, really score well in the post but that's about it. Can't pass, doesn't defend, not the greatest jump shooter, begins his post moves a bit higher than your average dominant center, etc. The FO got way out ahead of itself and they resigned a guy that filled what had to be filled on a 22 win team that was missing its 2nd best player for 1/2 of the year. Now that they're locked in, they're stuck with a fairly one-dimensional player who can't be moved due to, among a few other things, marketing reasons. They then proceed to draft a guy who appears to be more KG-ish at the position than the guy they locked in with a big contract. He passes, help defends, can thrive in transition, can hit the mid range shot, etc. ----------------------------------- Cutting off the DA, I still think they can get this done with a core of Love/Jefferson, but is anyone else starting to wonder about them committing so quickly to Big Al? I know they were horrified that he'd leave as a FA, and they were able to sign him to a very cap-friendly deal, but I guess this leaves us with 2 questions: 1- Do you feel confident that they can build a team around Al with guys like Foye, Love, and Brewer coming along for the ride? 2- Do you still feel that way knowing they will never, ever move Al and that the same group who patched it together post-Spree/Sam with KG are now literally doing the same thing with a lesser player and a motley crew of undersized bench players? When I was younger I played in a bunch of chess tournaments. I thought I was pretty good and I placed at a few local events. I then went to a regional sort of event and had my ass handed to me. Watching the Wolves I get the bad sense that things were so awful last year that we fans (and the FO) overvalued the limited talent we had and now that we've ostensibly moved up, it's a shock to the system. This FO is the same FO that thought Spree/Sam = Ricky Davis/Mike James. I get that there has been somewhat of a culture change but...well, the next 5 games are Portland, @ Denver, Philly, Boston, @ Detroit. Here's hoping they do well against Philly.
GG (not verified)08:53am
Nov 13
Here's a quick list of big guys that are better than Al (4s and 5s): KG Duncan Amare Josh Smith Boozer Lamarcus Aldridge David West Al Horford Dwight Howard Andrew Bynum Yao Bosh Gasol Brand Dirk Maybe (probably): Love Beasley Oden Not counting the rooks, that is 15 guys (I am probably missing one or two as well) that are better than our "franchise" player. The guy we are trying to build around with mismatched pieces, and wasting the talents of these other players in a system (if you could call it that) that they are ill equipped to play. My point is, you could put any of these guys on the Wolves, give them Al's touches, and they could put up similar or better numbers. Almost everyone of them would play better defense. Every one of them has a better all around game, and would have helped us achieve a better record over the past year +. I'd add that we probably could have gotten at least a few of them (Bynum, Horford at least) for KG. The production we could get out of our current group of players in a system better suited to their talents, far exceeds what we have and will continue to achieve in a Big Al focused system. To put it bluntly, Big Al as our "superstar" is a cruel joke, and Wolves fans are finally waking up to this fact.
Blakeley (not verified)03:08pm
Nov 13
GG, I think that's a pretty extreme over-reaction. During this long Timberwolveless week it's easy for us to lose some perspective on some of our players following the awful Golden State loss. I'm fairly certain that if we had a competent coach that actually realized how truly awful our "small-ball" line up is, and decided to play Kevin Love...then we win at least a few of those games vs. the Thunder, Spurs, Blazers, and Warriors. If we win those games, then right now we're talking about Al Jefferson's ability to absolutely score at will AND his potential emergence as an acceptable to above average defensive player (as evidenced by his play vs the Warriors). I'm not arguing that Timberwolves fans should not feel despondent. Randy Wittman is still the coach after all. I just think that thus far we've actually seen enough from the players to prove that we have the talent to actually warrant many of our 33-38 win predictions.
levi (not verified)08:54am
Nov 13
So, S&P -- are you saying that the Wolves' #1 problem is the management, or their marquee player? Without hesitation, it is obvious to me that McHale has obviously blundered, in big ways, literally dozens of times during his tenure (what else can we call it?) with the Wolves. I should have listed him as my "Number One Problem", but I wanted to keep it about the players, following the apparent lead of Midlife Crisis. To answer your question re building a team around Jefferson - I'll opine that I would include him, but "building a team around him" would be oversimplification. It would be more about building a team around his deficiencies. But the ONLY way I see it being successful is to have Al-Jae play PF. Foye, Love, and Brewer? Foye - NO. Trade or waive ASAP. Love - Yes. Brewer - Yes. The only other definite keepers are Miller and Gomes. And to be clear, "keeper" doesn't mean "starter". Hopers would be Telfair, Collins (who knows?) and the Rhino. Ollie and Maddog...Maddog because someone needs an NBA Championship ring on this team besides McHale. And did anyone notice that Ollie is listed as the Wolves team 'Captain" on the roster? But definitely "good-bye" to McCants, along with Foye.
stop-n-pop (not verified)09:15am
Nov 13
I don't know what I'm saying in regards to that last post. I really haven't made up my mind one way or the other on the subject. I am, however, becoming more of the opinion that current management and their marquee player are mutually exclusive when it comes to winning ball. That list of players in the post below here is also kind of troubling. I guess if I had to rank the list of problems on this team, and I wasn't doing so with opinions I haven't really hashed out yet or with DA arguments, I'd say they begin and end with the FO. I like the fact that McHale isn't the only voice making decisions (or so we're told). I like the fact that they appear to be surrounding Big Al with perimeter players who can shoot the 3 as well as a front court helper that appears to be an upper-level intangibles guy. I like the fact they are working towards clearing cap space and accumulating draft picks. However, there's still a bunch of troubling left overs from the KG days. McHale clearly sees himself in Big Al and he's trying to put the band back together by reconstituting the 86 Celtics. I still think you can look at every personnel decision the guy makes through the lens of "What 86 Celtic does McHale think this player is most like?" I guess I'm upset for a couple of reasons: 1- For once again buying into the garbage that this team continues to sell to its fans. 2- For overvaluing the talent on a 22-win club. 3- For having to watch the same group put together another lesser version of what they had with KG. I guess if I had to pin an analogy to the Wolves and their FO, it would be that they are the NBA version of a Wes Anderson movie. With Bottle Rocket, you could see the talent at the heart of a modest project. With Rushmore, you saw all the pieces starting to develop; the color schemes, the music selection, the dry humor, etc. Moving on to the Royal Tennenbaums, you had the movie version of a run to the Western Conference Finals. It had prime talent, solid direction, excellent production value, and the folks behind the scenes were operating at the top of their game. After that, each successive movie has been a watered down version of a previous idea. The cast seems a bit more tired, some of the high end role players have been replaced by lesser-known actors, and we all sort have become desensitized to the effect of well coordinated music and color substituting for actual human emotion and character development. We can all see what the FO is trying to do with this squad. They have another guy that they'll pitch as a 2nd KG. They'll do their best to surround him with another version of Sam and Spree or Ricky and James, and...well, we've seen this before and we're growing increasingly tired of it. Perhaps it's time to drop the slow motion and David Bowie soundtrack and do a zombie flick.
plinytheelder (not verified)09:39am
Nov 13
When it comes to building the team, for now or for the future, I think there's one simple option: build around Love. Regarding the future, take him as your cornerstone; regarding the present, get him the ball as much as possible. I think the Wolves need to do with him what GS did with Stephen Jackson the other night, what the Grizz do with Mayo, etc etc etc: make sure most of the offensive possessions revolve around Love. Not that he'll ever be a dominant scorer like those other guys I mentioned, nor should he be: my point is that if you get him the ball somewhere in the middle of the floor, big Al's touches (and quality touches) go up, and more 3 pointers open up (we all know that inside-out 3s are the highest percentage 3s, whether the passes come from the low or high post). S/P mentioned at some point that the Wolves could choose to play small ball, or go for a slow-down offence with Jefferson. I think that, by adopting the above strategy, they can essentially do both. If Love can stay out of foul trouble - obviously a big if - I say play him 35 min/game, and get him the damn ball, preferably somewhere in the middle of the court/high post area.
Andy G (not verified)10:55am
Nov 13
Wolves fans have been trained to think that everything is about a cornerstone piece, since we had the best one in the league for over a decade. Everyone of those big guys listed below has a teammate or three that are much-better than our next best player. In fact, nobody knows who are next-best player even is. It could be Love, but he hasn't had the time to prove it, yet. Foye can play in this league, but it has to be in a supporting role. He could trade spots with Derek Fisher or Mario Chalmers and look like a pretty good point guard. Next to Mike Miller and Rashad McCants, though, is a different story. Jefferson is a great player. He'll deserve to make this year's All-Star team, unless we continue to lose at the current rate. Considering how horribly mismanaged his team is, and how poorly coached, he's remarkably consistent. He can't defend centers very well. But, he has to do his best, since the decision has been made to play him out of position. Sometimes the effort doesn't look like it's there, but it's usually ok and the effort is ALWAYS there on offense. Nobody in the league can play their absolute hardest on both ends. That means Kobe, Duncan, KG, LeBron, anybody. Jefferson worked his ass off against Golden State for those 25 & 12, but our team shit the bed when they switched to a zone, and couldn't get him the ball. If he had a great defensive teammate next to him, he wouldn't get exposed as often. If Minnesota had a great scorer next to KG, he wouldn't have gotten exposed as often in the playoffs. It's a team game and the very simple truth is that we need another star next to the one we already got. We might even need two more. Three stars won the title, last year. They beat a team that had two stars. Anyway, we can "build" around Jefferson, if we add a star guard and defensive big man. There probably aren't any Kobes or LeBrons entering the league, but there might be a Brandon Roy or Joe Johnson. And there probably aren't any Greg Odens or Dwight Howards entering the league, either, but there might be a Marcus Camby or Chris Kaman. If we just copied what works, which is playing a big front line with at least one playmaker in the backcourt, things would start to look more promising. It's not easy to find a great guard, but we've certainly had our hands on a couple in past drafts, only to trade them before the night was over. Front office overhaul...probably about time for it.
GG (not verified)12:51pm
Nov 13
I even prefaced my point by saying "my point is"....but, I guess I need to repeat it. Al Jefferson is putting up nice numbers on a horrendous team that doesn't win games. I believe that the guys below are clearly better all around players who could put up similar numbers if they were swapped spots with Al. Plus their more complete games would translate into more wins. We are building our team around a pretend superstar, who is at best the league's 16th best player at his 4/5 position. And people like you continue to swallow the shit sandwiches that the marketing department is serving up. No offense, they almost had me too, a year ago. But, it's time to put down the fork and demand change. Why should we devote our resources to finding a defensive center and better point guard? Wouldn't it be easier to find a replacement for Al that can play a little defense, stick a jumper, and hit an open teammate once in a while? Oh wait, we already have one, his name is Kevin Love.
Andy G (not verified)01:49pm
Nov 13
I understand your point, I just disagree with it. I think New Orleans improves with a West-Jefferson trade. I think Utah improves with a Boozer-Jefferson trade. I think Phoenix improves with a Stoudamire-Jefferson trade--especially after their coaching change and Shaq trade. And it has nothing to do with shit sandwiches--just watching the Wolves games for the past year. He's got a better low-post game than all of those players, and his jumper has improved noticeably since he arrived. And you might notice the passes he's been making over his head to Foye in the corner, or you can choose to ignore them. Foye cashed a couple of these against SA, but missed a big one against GS. As for devoting resources, we don't really have any, besides two power forwards and future first round picks. Call me crazy, but I'd like a guard and a center.
GG (not verified)02:05pm
Nov 13
Please get some of these GMs on the line. I'd do the deals in a heartbeat. Stoudamire would average 35pts a night if he played here and saw the ball as much as Al. Although, he's as selfish and defensively challenged as Al, his strengths are stronger than Al's. West and Boozer are at least as talented and they could play uptempo ball, defend, and not belittle their teammates when they don't get enough touches. Funny that you pick these three. They are all better than Al, but none of them is the best player on their team. Is this starting to sink in? We all know that Al has a good low post game. In fact that is the only thing keeping him on the floor. He's not even a starter on the basis of his other attributes, much less the 16th best big man in the league.
Andy G (not verified)02:18pm
Nov 13
West, Boozer, Stoudamire and Jefferson are all really good players. I'd be better off arguing that it's impossible to tell which is the best player. I just prefer a low-block scorer to a jump-shooter, if we're talking about a power forward. As for defense, you're right that Amare is not good at it, but he--unlike Al--has been bumped over to his natural 4-spot. With Love's acquisition, I don't know that this will happen for Jefferson, at least while he's in Minnesota. "They are all better than Al, but none of them is the best player on their team. Is this starting to sink in?" My original point is actually sinking in. These good players have even-better teammates. Jefferson's teammates are not even close to his level. It's the difference between a lottery team and a title contender. Five guys take the floor. If it were only one, we'd be a much better team. Anyway, that's all I got on this argument. If you think a Foye-Miller-Brewer-Love-West lineup would be better than ours, that's your opinion. Watch some NOLA games and see how much easier West's points come than Jefferson's do. If he played in Minny, he might not find as many open 15-footers from the wing. Watch some Phoenix games and see how many dunks Amare gets off Nash's dimedrops. Those guys might also get frustrated with Foye from time to time.
GG (not verified)02:46pm
Nov 13
Again my points are proving too evasive. These three are all better players than Al, yet their respective teams are not building around them. In fact they would probably ship them off in a heartbeat if they could improve their clubs. Why then, do so many people in MN consider Al and untouchable cornerstone? And how can we say that Al's teammates are "not even close to his level" when 90% of this roster would be better suited playing a more uptempo, motion offense style? Why not shift to scheme that maximizes our entire roster, instead of one geared towards maximizing the stats of a single good, but not great big man? Can we just admit that we gave KG away for pennies on the dollar and move on? Ainge fleeced us. Al is not an all-star. Are we going to piss away the franchise trying to change this fact?
plinytheelder (not verified)03:13pm
Nov 13
Why "is this starting to sink in?" and "my points are proving too evasive"? He's not dense, he just doesn't agree with you.
Levi (not verified)11:57am
Nov 13
*LOUD LAUGHTER*: "McHale clearly sees himself in Big Al and he's trying to put the band back together by reconstituting the 86 Celtics." Well, sorta. My theory is that he's vicariously trying to prove that "he" was, (or coulda/shoulda been) the main man on those teams. When KG wouldn't buy in to this, um, vision, eventually he had to go. Unfortunately, I don't think McHale understands that he wasn't nearly as important to the Celtics' success Bird, Parish or Johnson. Actually, I think it's rumored that he hated playing with those guys. I wouldn't look for an analogue of Bird, Parish, or DJ. to show up on the Wolves. But if there's a fantasy of mine, it would be that K.Love drops a lot of weight and can reprise much of the Larry Bird role, in particular the playmaking from the "3". Defending other "3"s might be a problem, though, but I'd say he'd be better on defense than Wally ever was. Meanwhile, look for a coach who knows the Triangle Offense.
stop-n-pop (not verified)12:23pm
Nov 13
I can't remember if it was here or over at Hoopus, but the "can Love play the 3 like Bird" debate came up before and...well, I don't remember too many of the details. As much as I dislike his 2nd career in the FO, don't sell McHale short on his importance to the Celts' glory days, especially in their best year: 86-87. He averaged something like 26 and 10 while shooting 60% from the floor that year. That's absurd and once he started dealing with injuries (I think it was his ACL) they never regained the magic of the 86-87 season.
APB (not verified)12:27pm
Nov 13
Not to get into another little tiffy with you Levi, but as bad as McHale has been as a GM for the Wolves, it shouldn't have any bearing on his domination as a power forward during his playing time as a Celtic. McHale was just plain awesome as an NBA player. If Mchale could build a Wolves team that had even a slight resemblence to the '86 Celtics he would not be in the predicament hes in right now. His problem is that Al is not as good as he was and Love is not Bird, nor will he ever be. Plus, there is not a Parish on this roster, nor a Dennis Johnson. McHale's importance to the Celtics teams during Birds era shouldn't be underestimated. These were Bird's teams, but McHale was definately a star playing next to him.
plinytheelder (not verified)01:06pm
Nov 13
I frankly think the Bird analogy is a good one, and not only because it lends weight to the argument that McHale is trying to rebuild the 80s Celts. This may be wishful thinking, but I think he can become a Bird-like player. With 2 differences: first, at the 4 rather than the 3 (there's no way he guards players like Gay, McGrady, etc): there's no reason a guy can't be just as creative from the high post as from the wing. Second, as a guy who impacts the game not so much through scoring (like Bird), but passing, posting up, and driving the lane. I mentioned on Hoopus that I think Love is the Wolves' only potentially great player, and I think the Bird comparisons, while premature, may someday hold water. Also, agreed on the impossibility of impugning McHale as a player - I mean, 60% FG/80% FT, all the while averaging something like 22ppg? That's ridiculous. But there's an adage in the NBA about mediocre players making better coaches and GMs than great ones, and I think we're seeing it play out with him.
APB (not verified)01:25pm
Nov 13
Pliney, Possibly, but things better turn around pretty quick. Granted Love is a 20 y/o rookie and Bird was probably more like a 23 or 24 y/o rookie, but the improvement of the Celtics before Bird arrived to his rookie year was the single largest one year improvement in NBA history up to that point, if my memory serves me correctly. I beleive only Duncans rookie year and KG year last year have since topped that one year improvement in wins and losses. Bird also transformed a last place team into a team that went to the Eastern conference finals in his rookie year (without McHale). I like Love and I think he is pretty good. He might even be a great player, someday. But, there are certain players in the history of the league that set almost impossible standards for comparison and players being compared to them will undoubtedly fail to reach the same heights. There is only one Michael Jordan and there was only one Larry Bird. There was only one Magic. After that, there are a lot of great NBA players but few who can ever reach the same hieghts as those three in my opinion. Someday people might put a player like Lebron in the same company, but I don't think they will ever mention Love amongst them. If they do, we are going to be very lucky here in MN. Luckier than we were in having KG for over 10 years.
plinytheelder (not verified)01:51pm
Nov 13
Good points, and I don't want to hold the kid up to a standard he can't possibly attain. (Though I think you are right to call attention to his age.) Maybe it's best if I just say this: I think Love has some Bird-like qualities, not only in terms of his passing, but his uncanny ability to see a play developing before anyone else, his ability to make others around him better, etc.; and as I said earlier, I think he is the only player on the Wolves' roster with the potential to be a truly great player. If I'm Wittman, I'm not just starting him, I'm playing him 35 minutes a game.
Andy G (not verified)02:06pm
Nov 13
I think that if Love lost some weight--not a ton, but maybe 15 lbs, there are plenty of small forwards that he could defend. Vlad Radmonovich and Peja Stojachavic quickly come to mind. Big shooters who post up more than they drive. He couldn't stay with Melo and probably plenty of others, but down the road, it could be something for (whoever our next coach is) to consider.
APB (not verified)02:55pm
Nov 13
Yes, he probably could. my favorite nba team of all time was the Bird era Celtics. I don't think Bird was the greatest one-on-One defender, but having Mchale and Parrish behind him allowed him to take gambles and get a few steals a game, especially at crucial points in the game. Plus, he was so good offensively, that frequently he drew the assignment of the opposing teams defensive stalwart who oftentimes was limited on the offensive end, players such as Rodman. Give Love a defensive minded Center to go with Big Al and he might be able to hold his own defensively against small forwards. But, where I don't see Love approaching Birds game is his possession of a devastating outside shot. Bird saw the floor and made the passes and could also grab a rebound. But, not only was he a magician with the ball around the basket he was probably the best three point shooter of his era. Players had to play up on him whether or hot he had the ball in his hands. He could get his shot off very quickly from almost any spot on the floor. I don't see Love ever developing that type of game (top be fair, I don't see anybody) and if he plays small forward out by the three point line, who is going to be paying attention to him? No, I think PF is the best position for Love and Wittman had better start using the Al/Love/Gomes frontline more in the coming weeks and start working Collins into the rotation to spell Big Al and Love and Brewer to spell Gomes. I guess its Miller and Foye at the guards with Telfair coming in when needed. McCants and Smith are the two who have to lose minutes, but I don't see any other way out. If WIttman can't find a rotation that can be competitive soon, lets hope he has enough pride to just tell McHale that he can't get it done and quit before McHale has to fire him. He can give it shot at the college level, wher I'm sure he can have some success.
levi (not verified)11:41pm
Nov 13
My point is that I believe that McHale overestimates his value to those great Celtics teams (and I was a fan of the team long before McHale). And from the pot/kettle/black file is the gem where McHale accused Bird of being selfish. I'm saying that maybe McHale thinks in his heart of hearts he really didn't need those other guys. Take McHale and put him on the current Wolves squad. Not much changes, except McHale's boxscore results -- Bird & Co aren't dishing to him anymore, it's Foye & McCants.
InGusWeTrust (not verified)01:40pm
Nov 12
Just a terribly unbalanced roster. Our biggest asset is fresh legs. Making a substitution every other whistle is our only chance to win.
new5thpants (not verified)02:32pm
Nov 12
britt and comments crew = smartest sports media in the state. thank you thank you thank you. another long suffering twolves partisan.
APB (not verified)05:29pm
Nov 12
The Psychology of a Twolve fan. There are many commenters here who follow the wolves closer than I do. I have some basketball X/Os insights, but pale in comparison to many astute visitors here who comment regularly, semi-regularly and even only rarely. I gather the majority of my opinions of the Wolves roster from Britt and other astute posters right here at this blog. But, there is one remaining insight I have sole proprietor ownership on and consider myself an expert and that is the psychology of this particular Twolve’s fan. All I can say is my enthusiasm for this years Twolves team is waning and my apathy towards the remainder of the year has come on rather unexpectedly. My only explanation is to try some sort of history of my Twolves fandom. The dates and accuracy of my recollection may not reflect actual events, but, afterall, we are talking about my psychology and what is between my own ears, not necessarily facts, as I try and explain why I seemingly have ceased to care about this team’s eventual success or failure. Beginning with the start of the franchise I became a fan not so much of the Twolves, but of the NBA coming to the Twin Cities in general. It was my opportunity to see Bird. Magic, Barkley, Isaih, Jordan and others in person and I immediately started to follow the progress of the Wolves from the hiring of Musselman to the expansion draft and drafting of Pooh in the first round and Doug West in the second. I didn’t care if the Wolves won or not in that inaugural year in the Metrodome or in the years to follow in the Target Center. My first disappointment in the teams direction taken by management was the firing of Musselman for his emphasis on winning over tanking for a better draft pick. As the Wolves draft lottery balls seemed to reward other teams and the wolves lottery picks underachieved, my disappointment in the team grew but my passion for watching NBA ball was only tempered by the successes occurring in the Barn across town under the tutelage of Clem. Still, watching Longley get picked apart by Robinson, or Jordan and Pippen psychologically breaking down Derrick Martin brought a certain perverse joy. However, the disappointing succession of draft picks including Felton Spencer, Luc Longley, Christain Laettner, Isaih Rider, and Donyell Marshall coupled with coaches Jimmy Rodgers, Sidney Lowe and Bill Blair’s inability to build any hope that the team was on track to improving, led to a sort of lethargic viewing of the team before Taylor rescued the Wolves from New Orleans and hired Kevin Mchale to run the team. We are all aware of the history following that. There was the cleaning house and sending away of Laettner, Marshall and Rider. There was the drafting of KG and the placing of Flip in the head coaching slot. There was the trading away of Ray Allen for Marbury and the emergence of “Googs” as the franchises first all star. Suddenly thoughts of NBA championship was on the minds of many Timberwolve’s fans. The Wolves improved even among a string of bad luck. Googs signed with Phoenix and Marbury asked to be traded. Terrell Brandon, a worthy replacement, was not Starbury and, in a flurry to replace Googs, McHale and Taylor made the stupid Joe Smith mistake. But, The Wolves still won and tantalized fans with success because we had the “best” player on the planet. But, that wasn’t good enough and after a few first round playoff exits, McHale and Taylor gambled for the championship by maneuvering to get Sam Cassell and Spreewell and offering this Twolves fan his greatest moments of Twolves fandom. But, there was a tradeoff, and, as close as the Wolves came to getting it all, a Cassell hip from becoming NBA champions, the next year brought all the risks accompanying bringing two players with a history of negative influence to fruition and by the end of that year, the Wolves and McHale in particular, made the one mistake that led to all the future decisions leading to the inept lineup we have today and this fans apathetic attitude that has presently befallen him. He fired Flip. Not that he wasn’t justified given the circumstances, but, I’m convinced, had McHale let Flip finish the season and make the necessary adjustments to make the Wolves a winning team again, the Wolves would still be finishing the regular season within playoff contention, albeit to routinely hurried first round exits. The mistake McHale and all the fans made, including yours truly, was believing that a winning team was not enough and we deserved a championship. I like watching good basketball year in and year out. I hate what I see on the Target Center basketball court right now. When the Wolves hired Casey and brought in Ricky Davis as Spreewell and Mike James as Cassell, you could sort of see the plan. The downgrade from Spree and Sammy was obvious, but you still expected the Wolves to reach the playoffs. When Davis turned on Casey and McHale sided with Davis, you knew the Casey era was over and on came Wittman. When it became apparent the KG could not will the Wolves into the playoffs by himself, it was time to do the unthinkable. All these decision I agreed with at the time, but still found them only necessary because of the painful previous decision of firing Flip brought on by the risk taking move of the all or nothing approach to bringing in Sammy and Spree. The trade didn’t turn out that bad, even with the KG Celtics championship outcome on the other side. We had some new talent and excitement. All right, this can all turn around very quickly (its only 7 games and we're a 6 game win streak from .500--why does that seem so impossible? the reason is the source of this way too long post). But its hard to believe it will and I have to ask myself why. I loved the trade that brought Love and Miller to the Wolves for Mayo, not so much because we got Love, but because we also got Miller and a 7 foot center too. But Collins isn’t getting playing time and Miller is far from the veteran presence I thought he was going to be. Plus, Love’s success has led to two players who are fun for Twolves fans to root for, Rhino and Gomes, being scapegoated for many of the Wolves current problems and rightfully so. Love is better than expected, but hardly the savior of this team. But, Miller's influence is not only missing from the three point arc, but also in his leadership that should have been provided as a steadying influence among the younger talented players such as Foye, Jefferson, Gomes and others. Still, the current Wolves have the talent to do it (meaning--get better and instill the hope that the current collection of players might someday be a playoff team) if they can buy into a successful coaching philosophy. My biggest reason for the apathy I now feel towards this years Twolves team is: I no longer believe that the players believe in Wittman’s coaching philosophy, and probably, given recent substitution patterns, again, rightfully so. But, I don’t want to go through another change in culture and players buying into a new system. Especially given that many of the players probably think the current losing culture begins over the head of Wittman and are unlikely to buy into the front offices choice for a replacement of Wittman. So, what do you do? There are the three options laid out by SnP in a previous post. Those are options and probably smart ones. But anyone of those options leads me to stop caring. Its all so sad even if it is just basketball and my own choice to undergo the punishment of being a fan of an NBA franchise. Right now, I can’t find anything to root for. I found it hard to root for the last couple of KG led teams as well, but the shedding of contracts from the roster and new blood instilled some new hope. And, now, after just seven games, all that hope is just about gone. That’s pathetic. Notreally the Wolves start, but my status as a fan. Some day I’ll give it all up I mean I'll have to because there is little dignity in it. Perhaps, quite soon. At least sooner than I'd like to.
A.K. Agikamik (not verified)10:11am
Nov 13
Britt: Its Thursday 10:00 am. I have a suggestion if you have the time. Since the next games are Sat and Sun night, I'm assuming you'll have a double bill available Monday morning. There is a lot of discussion going on in the meantime and after 60+ comments and a couple of days the comments section gets tougher to follow. How about a quick Trey that directs some discussion over the next couple of days regarding the team or whatever subjects you like? On a related, but probably unaddressable note, I like the feature on Canis Hoopus that highlights unread comments - that would help a ton here... As always, thanks! - AK
new5thpants (not verified)10:36am
Nov 13
^^^ agreed
new5thpants (not verified)10:34am
Nov 13
a modest proposal - bring back marbury and flip. it might be more than a little insane and backwards looking but it almost seems like the squad might have a shot at bringing both back (i.e. both are cooling their heels at the moment). addressing their, imo, 2 biggest issues: suspect coaching and our lack of a freaking floor general who can score. steph would get to play for flip again (allegedly something he regrets not doing longer) and i believe (hope) he'd bring a different lvl of professionalism than he has in NYC, knowing this would likely be his last shot at being a winner (rimshot!) at this lvl. figure steph might even step up and mentor his cousin & foye. good idea? maybe... at the very least he might get himself and others to the god damn free throw line. wtf's with that anyway? have we ever had a team that got to the line? f-ing golden state took 20 more trips the other night if memory serves. anyway, flip obviously would bring his playbook and some much needed crunch-time clear thinking. plus, there's a part of me that'd like to see him and mac get a shot at reconciliation. (que the strings) at the very least it would make better reading this year than the long death of a thousand cuts we're looking at now.
Minneapleseed (not verified)11:53am
Nov 13
Once again, great commentary and analysis. I always enjoy reading your blog and the comments posted by your readers. I find this a more knowledgeable forum for public debate than our local "news"papers, where nothing but knuckleheads make obnoxious statements that are supposed to come off as witty and well informed (and that includes the "journalists" they employ). Anyway, this is a most disappointing season so far because the team, and Wittman in particular, is making the EXACT same mistakes that doomed the team last year. Poor substitutions, lack of understanding of situation and personnel of both our team and the opponents, lack of understanding of individual roles on the team, poor leadership from the bench and the floor, unwillingness to let rookies develop by playing substantial minutes, deriding certain players while letting others get away with murder (Al, I'm looking square at you, big guy. You aren't perfect, don't act like it. If no one yells at you for mistakes, what gives you the right to yell at others?), no in game adjustments to disrupt what the other team is doing (see Parker, Tony) etc, etc, etc... It is amazing to me that nothing changes. This team is the definition of insanity: management has a deranged state of mind on what the talent level of this club is, Wittman has shown such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding it should prove he is lacking the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction, then add in the extreme folly and unreasonableness of individuals like Al "do as I say, not as I do) Jefferson and Rashad McCants and one can see how this would lead to the utterly foolish and unreasonable response to adversity that this team shows. In my mind, there are 2 ways to deal with things that don't work well. Continue to do the same thing more, believing that your judgment and actions are sound and proper, just the results are missing (see Government, U.S.) or admit you were wrong from the get go, attempt to fix the mistake and try something new. Anyone else agree with this analysis?
Jackson (not verified)01:00pm
Nov 13
Several points, 1. Mchale as coach 2. Collins not playing 3. Win record 14 games out Ok, so 1. I can't believe that people are suggesting that we make mchale the coach. Unless it is just a convoluted way to make him fail and be kicked out. This whole mess is his fault. He needs to go and have nothing to do with the wolves ever again. 2. I read that Collins has been ready to play for the last three games but wittman did not play him. What the hell is up with that? How bad of an idea is that? I would say very bad. Put Collins inthe damn game already. This is not rocket science. We need a big center and Collins is big and used to be decent. Is he that bad now? We don't know because wittman won't play him. 3. I looked ahead at the next six games and I think we will lose them all. There are some pretty good teams like the celtics, suns, blazers, and so on. We are probably going to be 1 and 12. Which ain't good. The question is how bad does it have to get before something is done? Before either mchale quits. Or taylor lets him go. Or wittman is fired. What will it take for someone to wake up?
Jackson (not verified)01:21pm
Nov 13
Oh I forgot one. 4. Failure of the press. If wittman and mchale and Taylor consistently run this team into the ground, at what point do we get our representatives in the press to call them out on their self-destructive practices? I understand that people want to maintain good relationships, but these comments are filled with person after person saying "what are they doing? What are they thinking?" We have no way of confronting these people or asking questions but the press does. But I am not hearing the tough questions asked. We need the equivalent of the couric/palin interview but with robson and wittman.
pagingstanleyroberts (not verified)04:49pm
Nov 13
The strange thing about all of this is that the team has some decent offensive numbers. Strangely, they're second in the league in assists per game and give up the fewest amount of steals per game. For all the problems they've been having, there are some indications that they're not turning it over that much and that they're sharing the ball on some level.
midlife crisis (not verified)10:10pm
Nov 13
Even though Wittman's comments on KFAN today were sometimes comic ("I've been doing this for a long time and know what it takes to be successful"), the part where he said they weren't far off is actually pretty logical. There are times that the team really puts together some smooth possessions and there were magical moments with Jefferson and Miller playing the two man game ( something we all assumed we would see steadily just a few months ago). Unfortunately, it seems we switch out of the lineups that are effective and nobody understands it. Al Jefferson is not KG, but none of us need 50+ wins to be happy at this point. With Love, Miller and Gomes, and the formerly sweet outside shot of both Foye and McCants, it really seemed like we could get past 30 wins. I still think only some tweaks could help this club, just like a few tweaks turned a 20-20 team in Jan of '07 into a 12-30 club the rest of the way.
pagingstanleyroberts (not verified)09:53am
Nov 14
The other stat in there is shooting percentages. Currently, they're under 45% and under 30% from 3. I've gotta think the numbers from 3 will go up.

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