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For Die-Hards Only: Vegas In Mid-July
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The best way to sucker me into watching something like the Wolves-Mavs Summer League tilt in Vegas last night is to give me another deadline upon which to procrastinate. That was the situation, and thus here are my thumbnail takes on a meaningless game that may still have a tea leaf or two worth parsing over.
Biggest disappointment: The shot selection and accuracy of Corey Brewer.
They've got another ten pounds listed on his weight in the program over last year. And reports are that Brewer has stuck around and done everything the team has asked of him, which presumably means lots and lots of shooting practice. But in tonight's Summer League opener, with Brewer obviously slotted in as the go-to scorer in an effort to further prime the pump on his offense, the guy seems to have retained and perhaps even exacerbated his rookie flaws.
Under the best of circumstances, the spin move in heavy traffic is problematical, usually reliant on either luck or formidable strength and a charitable whistle. Brewer uses it too much because he has a faulty brake in transition. At least twice, and I'm pretty sure a third time, his path on dribble penetration was impeded and he spun into other defenders, with predictable results--turnover, airball, travel or charge. The defenders on these Summer League rosters are not exactly NBA caliber, and yet Brewer persisted in snuffing his own shot by playing in traffic.
He hit his first two shots of the game, and his first shot of the second half. Other than that, he was 2-15 FG. Some of them were wide open looks that shooters make; some of them were ridiculously forced shots of the sort flailing players chuck up to wheedle a trip to the free throw line, only on a couple of occasions was Brewer flailing because he wasn't strong or tall enough to create separation with a step-back move and felt compelled to try and heave it over his foe. At least one was a airball finger-roll that happened infrequently, but were still vividly memorable, last season.
To sum up, then: Brewer's shot selection was horrid, the result of taking a regular-season fifth option and making him your primary scorer. His accuracy on "good" shot attempts was still suspect. His body control remains gawky and strained; his strength sub-par, his mechanics all over the place.
The silver linings are that the Wolves were playing their first game together of 2008-09, whereas Dallas had already played twice previously. This is a huge edge in experience at this time of the year and with this level of skill set among the players. Also, there are no decent ball distributors to help Brewer get a good shot. He remains better running the floor than pulling up and shooting. His early success indicates to me that his mechanics are different in practice and warming up than they are when he's going full-tilt boogie on the floor; either that or he begins thinking too much when he clanks a couple.
In other words, it is very early and this is hardly the most significant barometer and sample size to judge a sophmore Brewer. But a lottery pick in his second year going 5-18 FG in a Summer League game? Bad sign.
Biggest satisfaction: Kevin Love's effort on defense.
You've probably read by now that Love picked up four fouls in the first seven minutes. But most of that was simply the shock of his first NBA splash in the pool, which creates a different intensity, even at this minor level, than practicing against your own teammates. But then he settled down and committed only two more in the next 23+ minutes. Rotations don't seem second-nature to him yet, and his hops are ordinary. But the willpower is glowing, causing him to rotate hard and decisively in the paint, especially in the second half when the Wolves beefed up their D. He also has the grit to camp out in the low block for offensive rebounds, but it remains to be seen if that is just the mediocre level of competition or whether he has the knack for getting position.
Love doesn't have the NBA three-point stroke, as his first two attempts were front iron. But reports of his outlet passing are true and are truly second nature. When Love grabs a rebound, his first inclination is to spin and deliver an over-the-head two-handed pass, something he can double-pump on if the outlet lanes are defended. His numbers last night--18 points, 13 rebounds--were workmanlike more than spectacular, which is probably preferable in a 19-year-old kid. Caution: there was no genuine big man on either team to put the fear into anybody, but Love was being guarded by a lithe pogo stick in James Singletary, who had a pretty decent season for the Clips the year after the last and had about as much NBA experience as anyone on the floor.
The downside: Love has at-best mediocre foot speed and needs to recognize and position himself to defend dribble drives more diligently. But the fundamentals seem sound (after one day versus inferior competition in mid-July).
Miscellaneous observations:
Pooh Jeter and Brian Ahearn are not the answer as back-up point guards. For that matter, not a single Wolves players registered an assist coming off the bench. Jeter was really the only "true" point on the roster. and he's undersized. Drew Neitzel was strictly a heat-check gunner, a poor man's Ricky Frahm.
The roster is mostly bereft of athletes and foot speed (maybe that "crazy athleticism" Carney supposedly brings to the party will reveal itself tonight after he sat out the opener). Nobody could effectively turn the corner against the Mavs' quicker lineups (starters and reserves), and none of the perimeter players besides Brewer could snap passes well enough to automatically avoid steals. The Wolves committed bushels of turnovers caused by a disparity in quickness.
Chris Richard likewise didn't set the world on fire in his team-high 31:37 of burn against competition he should be besting. The kid from Rochester via Oklahoma, Longar Longar, played merely 4 minutes+ by contrast and occasionally seemed lost, but did stick around long enough for a pretty blocked shot and seems unafraid to add a physical dimension. Raw, but perhaps worthy of D League seasoning?
Carney and former Gopher Vincent Greer were DNP; ditto Gerald Green. But aside from Brewer and Love, I don't see anybody on this roster getting within the top 12.
If you want to watch the Vegas games live on your computer, it is free with registration at NBA.com
51 Reader Comments
The only encouraging thing that I saw from Brewer was a noticeable increase in bulk through his shoulders and chest. No one will mistake him for a bodybuilder, but he appears to have added legitimate weight and strength in his upper body. Unfortunately, his legs remain about as wide as popsicle sticks. But, as someone who didn't think that Brewer's physiology was conducive to any weight gain, I think it's encouraging that he made any gains at all during the offseason. Even if his offensive game is as bad as before - and if last night's game is any indication, it is - his added strength should help him defend and rebound, which are the areas where we're counting on him anyway.
I hope the poor performances by Jeter, Ahearn, and Neitzel create a sense of urgency to re-sign Telfair. None of the summer league guys looks like a credible option as backup pg. I believe Bassy is summering in Vegas; let's get a contract worked out.
Love looked pretty good, and it appears that he has all the skills he's been advertised as having. But in an article he was quoted as saying that he needs to get in better shape. If the new, improved Kevin Love is out-of-shape to play against summer league competition, we better hope he doesn't fall off the chocolate milk (or whatever junk food he blamed for his doughiness) wagon before regular season competition begins.
Brew's offense was terrible, and I suspect he'll realize he needs to calm the hell down, no matter how bad the backcourt talent is around him. It was fun to watch him on D again, though. Not many players are actually entertaining on defense, but Brewer is one of the few. Some compare his style to Rodman's and I think that's fair--at least for this early stage of his career. He flies all over the place on defense and many average offensive players just can't handle it. With more strength and size, he'll improve on the legit scorers like Kobe & LeBron. If his offensive and defensive abilities were flip-flopped, he would have been Rookie of the Year, instead of Durant.
Brewer did dog his man on defense. The level of energy at which he plays is unusual and is an asset (except when he is asked to do too much on offense, as appeared to be the case last night). We should get a better idea about how he looks once Carney starts playing, as Carney should be our number one perimeter option. Hopefully Corey will return to focusing on his strengths, improving his weaknesses, and get himself under control.
Ditto Britt's comment on Longar. He does look like the most promising non-regular summer leaguer, and it would be good if the coaches would give him enough playing time to allow them to do a fair evaluation of him. If he can play center, block shots, and grab rebounds, he could become an asset down the line. We need a center with potential that can be developed after passing on Jordan, missing out on O'Bryant, and taking a flier on a guy who won't play here for at least two years.
Longar is still raw, but remember, he only started playing the game less than 10 years ago. The Wolves would be crazy not to at least give him a try. He would be a crowd favorite (you won't meet a nicer guy).
"If his offensive and defensive abilities were flip-flopped, he would have been Rookie of the Year"
... and if Mark Madsen's hustle and actually skill levels were flip flopped, he'd be an all star ... .... and if Kobe's spectacular dunking and will-to-win abilities were flip-flopped, the Lakers would have won the title
Haha just thought I'd get a cheap shot in at all the Brewer apologists who read this board. As of now Brewer doesn't have the offensive skills (ball handling, shooting, strength) to succeed at his (offensive oriented) position in the NBA — no matter how gosh darn hard he tries on defense.
And a Rodman comparison? Wow I haven't heard that one before, maybe if C-Brew quadruples his rebounding output. As of now Brewer looks like a massive bust of a lottery pick at worst and three-to-five years away from being legit at best.
First of all, I disagree with both of your tries to mock my offensive-defensive ability flop statement. I think if Mad-Dog's hustle level dropped to his very poor skill level, he would be too lazy and unathletic to succeed, regardless of his skill level and if Kobe's dunking ability swapped with his will-to-win ability, well...they are a wash since they are both near or at the top of the league.
As for Brewer, I thought I started my post with "Brew's offense was terrible..." I didn't think it called for a rebuttal that explained why Brew's offense is...actually terrible. However, as Patrick points out, it looks like he's added a little weight to his frame already and he might just shock the world and become the 392847th basketball player to add a lot of muscle throughout the course of his career. I'm crossing my fingers on that one. Improving his jumper will be more difficult and important.
The Rodman comparison has nothing to do with rebounding, but just their impact on the defensive end of the floor and defensive identity of their team. Some fans consider that to be every bit as important as offense, so when you get a phenomenal talent, it's worth getting excited about, or, at a minimum, not upset about drafting a "massive bust of a lottery pick" who will be "legit at best."
Because I am the one most often making the Rodman comparison, I wanted to add that it is more due to personality than impact. He plays hyper, which is great for defense and disasterous for offense. Skill and position didn't enter the analogy.
I don't dislike the Rodman comparison in terms of Brewer's on-court style. Before Rodman *became* Rodman, he played manic defense and disrupted opponents on the defensive end, a lot like Corey does. Rodman moved at an entirely different speed on the court, just like Corey does. Rodman struggled on offense, a lot like Corey does. Unlike Corey, Rodman played for better teams, so he wasn't under pressure to be a shot-maker. Rather, he was an exceptionally useful role player for a good team, which will hopefully be Corey's role as our team improves. Corey probably won't ever rebound like Rodman, but he can still be a useful player in the league.
He's not a front line player so by definition if he doesn't score he's a role player — and that makes him a bust of a lottery pick, in my opinion, no matter how well he fulfills that role. Defensive stoppers and energy players are not worth top 10 picks.
I agree he might be able to add weight, but I seriously doubt he's been able to add significant strength since April. Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's going to take him a few years before he's got an NBA body and if that's the case he may not be with the Wolves anymore when it happens.
As for the Rodman comparison, it's ludicrous no matter how you look at it. Rodman averaged nearly a double double his second year in the league — zero chance Brewer gets close to that. Later in his career Rodman led the NBA in boards 7 straight years — zero chance Brewer leads the league in anything ever.
If your comparing Brewer and Rodman's "Style" ie. hustle "frantic" pace ect. That's reasonable but meaningless. You might as well compare Mark Madsen with Rodman. All that matters is production.
You see Brewer hustling and I see it manifested in defensive plays. That is not the same as Mark Madsen, no matter how many times you repeat that off-base comparison. Depending on how you define "production" Brewer's defensive excellence might be worth something, and it might not be. If you're more into the Glenn Robinson/Michael Redd/possibly Al Thornton style of production (i.e. scoring some points on awful teams) then you would not appreciate anything Brewer has shown thus far, since the strengths of those loser players are exactly the same as Brew's weaknesses.
As for his draft position, here are the 15 players taken at #7, prior to Brewer:
1. Randy Foye
2. Charlie Villanueva
3. Luol Deng
4. Kirk Hinrich
5. Nene Hilario
6. Eddie Griffin
7. Chris Mihm
8. Richard Hamilton*
9. Larry Hughes
10. Tim Thomas
11. Lorenzen Wright
12. Damon Stoudamire
13. Lamond Murray
14. Bobby Hurley
15. Walt Williams
*has made at least one All-Star team
You make it quite clear that you don't care about defense at all, since a fair amount of these players would have had better careers if all they could have been was a "defensive stopper." Hamilton is the lone All-Star of the 15. Hurley, Griffin, and Mihm were complete non-factors. Williams, Murry, Wright, Thomas and Hughes are not and never were anything special. It's too early to judge Villenueva and Foye, but both could end up with mediocre careers. Where would you rank Bruce Bowen if he were put in that group?
The only reason I can't understand your take on this, is that you seem to think that no matter what sort of player Brewer becomes on the defensive end, he's a bust if he's not a fairly bigtime scorer. I'm not alone in thinking he has huge potential as a defensive stopper, and if he improves some (but not necessarily a lot) on offense, a really valuable player. If he never averages 15-20 ppg, but is a fixture on the All-Defensive Team, that makes him better than 80% of the past Number 7's.
I understand how important defense is, which is one of the reasons I was against the Love trade. My point is a one dimensional player can't survive as a wing in the NBA. Everyone, aside from maybe a shot blocking center or maybe a beast rebounding power forward, has to be at least a threat to score. Otherwise they're a liability in a lot of ways, like Bassy and Brewer were most of the time last season.
You make a great take on the draft though and that shows how much of a crap shoot it can be. I do think it's possible Brewer becomes a valuable player but to do so he's got to make a huge improvement to his offensive game or I don't think he'll be able to justify staying on the floor long enough to influence the game with his defense.
I probably have been too harsh on the guy and I'm not trying to ridicule your opinion of him. I just think people have been a little too generous in praising him and too reluctant to criticize him: He should be a lot more polished than he is considering his college career and where he was drafted.
I agree he doesn't need to be a huge scorer but he needs some kind of weapon to at least force people to pay attention to him on defense. Perhaps an outside shot ala Bowem? That would probably be the best case scenario. Hassell never developed anything and it's why he doesn't set sneaker on the floor anymore/.
From my perspective I don't think there has been an abundance of praise from this board for Brewer. Nor has there been a lack of criticism. His rookie season seems to have been fairly and objectively analyzed by many here. No one that I can recall has projected him to be an All star and most here haven't written him off entirely because of his energy and defensive potential.
He does need to hit open shots--but as I've stated before, I think he'll learn to slow down a little on offense and at least hit them at an average clip. If it's always as bad as his rookie season, he won't be very good.
As for his defense, I only comment on it because I think he shows signs of being phenomenal on that end--not just your typical Trenton Hassell, who guards the best wing and doesn't get completely torched. At the time we took Brewer, I didn't really like the pick, but couldn't point to other guys behind him who were clearly the right one. Some wish we took Noah and others with Thornton. I thought Noah was kind of an odd-ball at Florida with a terrible shot (turns out Brewer's was just as bad) and I knew nothing about Thornton. Maybe we should have taken Stuckey. In any case, I think Brewer's defensive abilities are worth getting excited about and it's not a stretch to predict he'll become a competent enough offensive player to keep him on the floor.
Also, I checked out a few more 7's that date further back... some like George McCloud I barely remember, but Chris Mullin and Kevin Johnson were certainly better than the guys in the last 15. In any case, I thought it showed that you're just as likely to get an average player as you are a good one. The Mayo trade can be more closely scrutinized, since it was the 3rd pick...Love looks good so far, but you had better get a damn-good player drafting in the Top 3. Michael Jordan heads up a fine list taken at that spot...
Re: Love staying in shape and getting in shape
There was interview on KFAN or something and they asked Love what he was going to do with his new found wealth. He responded by first noting that his family is doing pretty well and that he didn't really need the money. Then he said that the first thing he'll likely spend money on is a chef.
Assuming he doesn't hire a pastry chef, I think this dude is pretty professional and will definitely continue to get in better and better shape as the season progresses. The only potential problem is that most rookies seem to find the summer before they enter the league to be pretty hectic. They are often flying around, doing endorsements, etc. This leaves less time to practice and stay in shape.
I hope you're right about Love's professionalism being sufficient for keeping him in shape. A chef, a personal trainer, and the best (legal) supplements should top his priorities list. My concern is that as he gets older, keeping that weight off will be more difficult. Growing up, I knew a lot of kids who were thin and athletic at 19 but gained a lot of weight by the time they were, say, 26. Granted these weren't professional athletes, but I'm just saying that it gets harder to keep unwanted weight off as one gets older. Also, adolescent obesity is usually a strong predictor of adult obesity. Let's hope KL defies that trend.
whatever, neitzel will make the squad. he droped 10 points, missed 1 shot, and knocked down 2 from deep. he has great vision and will outplay everyone wednesday
Should we just call you Neitzel Stooge instead of anonymous? Because anonymous posters are not welcome.
I was very impressed with Love's post-1st defense. Last season, the only players on the Wolves that seemed to understand the concept of jumping over the top of a screen or sealing the baseline were Ryan Gomes and (occasionally) Marko Jaric. Yet, here was a 19 year old kid flashing his big mitts out over the top of a pick and then rotating back into the lane. He also did a very nice job when the perimeter defenders were broken down; getting in the way of a few drives and even laying down a hard foul or two when someone got blown by a little too quickly (cough...Neitzel...cough).
You'd think one of the Ahern/Jeter/Neitzel crew would figure out that their best shot at making the team involves running pick and roll/pop after pick and roll/pop with Love but...well, here's hoping for some improvement in the next game.
I think the most telling thing of all about Love is that it was obvious that he was the only Wolf on the floor who actually looked like he knew how to play ball. The way he was able to set picks, pass, and hit a mid-range jumper should perk up the ears of Foye, McCants, and Miller. If they can't run the pick and roll/pop with this guy, they need to have their heads examined.
Finally, as goofy as the damn thing has been made out to be, that outlet pass is an amazing weapon. When your point guard can receive the ball in full stride at 1/2 court while 3/5 of the defense still has their backs turned, that's a skill that I don't think too many other teams have. I thought it was kind of a gimmick before seeing just how effective it could be during last night's game. It's not out of the realm of possibility to think that the team could get 4-6 buckets a game simply by having the guards sprint towards the other rim as soon as Love gets his hands on the ball. Too bad Brewer won't be able to finish a lot of these passes.
I saw a few Summer League games and opted for some home cooking at the Howard Pulley ProAm.
The best attributes about Kevin Love is his basketball IQ and his eagerness to learn. With Kevin McHale and Big Al, look for Love to pick up some nasty moves relatively quick.
CA--
Great idea on the Pulley attendance. For those of you interested in live basketball that combines the best and worst of athletic playground ball (the daredevilry and narcissism) the Howard Pulley games can be a delight, with enough recognizable names both past and present to make it feel like a "scouting report" on the local hoops scene.
All Hail Robson Procrastination! Hooray!
I love it when highly skilled people direct their talent at an underserving subject in the name of odd passion. Think George Will slumming it on baseball. Or Britt serving up a few hundred words on Vegas Summer League.
Its the best.
I have nothing else to add right now. Except to write the words "Longar Longar". You can go back to what you were doing. Thank you.
Love Kevin's game so far (please no "it's summer league caveats." On the originality scale it's like saying you hate Mondays and politicians. Let's try to be optimistic/semi-delusional tonight)
18 & 17 & 4 assists tonight. Wait until he gets some guys on the wings who can actually make open shots while in mid-scowl (ahh McCants)
I actually disagree with everyone regarding Blake Ahearn. Perhaps it was just the contrast with Neitzel and Jeter, who both looked entirely out of place, but I though Ahearn looked capable of filling that 3rd PG / Combo guard spot on the roster that McHale has been talking about.
He played under control and intelligently to my eye and he can hit shots. Obviously he is never going to excel, is lacking in speed and athleticism, and his handle is a bit shaky, but I thought he looked like an NBA player, unlike most of the Wolves team.
Well, it's only a two-year deal (which is a nice length considering the insanity which could be the Free Agent Summer of 2010), but the Wolves are keeping Craig Smith, and he could be playing summer league shortly. I'm still a little nervous about another dropoff in minutes for him this year, but hopefully he'll keep working hard and be rewarded.
Another great game by Love last night - I think these games are important to acclimate players to the pace of the NBA. You really can't underestimate the difference going from a 35-second shot clock to a 24-second one. Moving up and down court, getting into sets, establishing position...there's simply no margin for wasted movement or time. Interesting fact I just learned: the NCAA women actually play with a 30-second shot clock. I always thought it was the same for men's and women's college hoops.
Our backcourt isn't all that bad, but they're playing conservative ball - guys like Brewer and Love are supposed to be the stars. Combined, our guards had a total of 3 turnovers and 6 free throw attempts.
I know it's the dry season, but only one comment on the Rhino's contract?
This would appear to mean that Gomes is gone. It just doesn't seem likely that Smith would be signing on to become the 4th option for minutes at PF. Or that the Wolves would even be concerned about having a 4th option for that matter.
I think it could be a good move, especially if Gomes is really seeking MLE type money as the Strib reported.
I thought that Gomes would be playing the smaller forward following Miller rather than playing undersized at PF. Even if Brewer has been featured this summer, that's not a guarantee of time during the real season. Also, because it seems like Brewer is fast enough, he might play some SG, where the strength difference isn't as pronounced.
I'm happy to see Rhino still here, though (and I'm not just kissing up). He's entertaining.
I like the Rhino, but I hope this doesn't mean that guys who can guard centers are always relegated to the bench, since we've seen how that's worked defensively. He's productive, but I don't know how he fits defensively with two power forwards (and potentially Gomes) more productive than him already on the roster.
No contract details yet, but I'd be surprised if he was receiving more than $3 million per. If they weren't willing to give him more than 2 yrs. and Ronny Turiaf (a better player who is at least 2 inches taller) got $17 million for 4 years, it seems more likely that he took a discount because he likes it here or that there wasn't a lot of interest in him (which would surprise me).
If Gomes gets a mid-level offer from someone else, he's gone. I'll miss him, but he's not worth that type of money.
Update: the Rhino didn't seriously negotiate with other teams, and Jerry Zgoda thinks the deal is about $3.5-4 million total. That's less than what they're paying Madsen. It's nice to see that a player is willing to take less money to stay with a team he likes.
If that is the case, it would be pretty difficult to justify a MLE contract for a guy who is going to be splitting the backup 3 spot with Brewer. Don't you think?
Gomes as a stand alone SF doesn't do much for me. One of his primary attributes is his ability to slide between the 4 and 3 as needed. Again, why would the Wolves resign Rhino if they plan on giving Gomes some of those PF minutes?
From the look of things (especially if Carney gets a roster spot), there just aren't enough minutes for Gomes to warrant the type of money he is seeking.
It's unfortunate because Gomes is/could be a nice bench player, but the bright spot is we can use the money the address needs down the road.
I think they still want to sign Gomes and Telfair and for reasonable terms that does not commit to much for too long with either, just as they have done with Rhino. Either Gomes or Rhino will then probably be traded a long with other tradable assets on the roster for pieces that fit within the long term picture. Rhino and Gomes have both demonstrated their worth and ability to be of use to some teams in the league for a roster spot as a 6-8 player in the rotation. If they both sign reasonable contracts they will be solid assets on the roster.
You could be right about the sign and trade of either or both Gomes and Rhino, and it certainly would make sense from the Wolves perspective. I wonder though, can you extract a hometown discount from a player in a contract negotiation, then turn around and trade him? That is not the kind of thing that endears a team to NBA agents.
It sounds like Smith really wants to be here and didn't test the waters. Gomes would likewise need to sign for less than he could get elsewhere to entice the Wolves.
It could be a sign and trade that was negotiated as long ago as the draft as proposed by S&P for one of Memphis PG, but I wasn't thinking of that. Rather, I was think that if both Gomes and Rhino sign reasonable deals one of them would welcome a trade to a team willing to give either one more playing time in a rotation, since I agree with you that there will not be enouugh minutes for Gomes and Rhino both with Love and Jefferson on the roster.
oooohhhh, man! the minute my mind drifted at work today I KNEW some sort of summer league update would be on here. shazam!
All I gotta say is Dan Ballermo, the PM Drive guy on KFAN just insulted all the folks who follow the NBA Summer League. That’s everyone on this board. Pretty much, he said we’re losers. We’re losers for following the summer league. You gotta boycott any fool who tries to hate on anyone trying to follow their favorite local team.
Then again he said Mike Conley Jr. was going to be a once in a life time point guard, ripped Kevin Garnett every opp he had, and still says Mike Prior was the better draft choice than Joe Mauer. No wonder that fool only talks 1-hour of sports these days. He’s soooo out of touch. He’s a young Sid, which makes him 82. So why sweat him? The fact he makes so much money hating on things Minnesota sports fans love is an insult to us. If you can help it, turn the dial from KFAN from 4p-7P.
Back to the Wolves. If I have to make an executive decision and Ryan Gomes signs a 4-year MLE, I would let him go. How many other guys can fill that type of role, Hakim Warrick - Charles Villanueva. These guys were originally rumored coming over with the number 5 or 8 pick around draft time. These type of guys (13 and 6) are more easily found. The Wolves would be smarter if they had available cap space in case a better player comes around. Elton Brand proves that you never know - that if a player wants to jump ship, you gotta a shot at getting him if you have the cap space.
This is an interesting topic. I'm stuck in the car for nearly 2 hours of that show and I think it's fallen off a cliff in the last 2 years. It's not just his tired takes on anything sports related (from KG to Joe Mauer to the Wolves FO decisions in the past year), but that the rest of his show--even the political stuff, which I find interesting--has devolved into some weird ass place where being a centrist 'in between the crazies' has some sort of value, both in entertainment and everyday philosophy.
One of the most surreal moments came last night when he had Pat Kessler on and the two talked about some Reality Check that Kessler had about Norm Coleman lying. Without getting into the details, both of them simply couldn't wrap their heads around the issue at hand without relapsing into the tired old 'they're crazy on both sides' nonsense. They literally couldn't comprehend the idea that people were upset with Kessler because he turned a substantive issue (a politician lying) into your basic back-and-forth pissing match (the opposing party's chair calling the guy who lied a liar).
Ballermo is a much more advanced version of Sid. Sports wise, he's growing increasingly reliant on takes that are no longer relevant, and with everything else he's pulling a sleight of hand by dressing up takes from the meaningless middle as nuance. He gets nice guests and that's about the only thing that keeps me around...plus, I live in southern MN and it's the local FAN affiliate or corn futures.
I have never been a big fan of Dan B. I think hes a talented radio personality (unlike the younger Hartman, before him who is unlistenable), I turn the channel quickly whenever his discussion drifts away from sports. I could just care less what Dan B says about politics and I have never understood why is political discussions have brought in listeners and increased his ratings.
But his voice, the whining, can grate on the nerves. This guy is not a very happy person and he comes off as extremely insecure. You can tell he holds a grudge and if an athlete, caller, or other personality takes exception to him or something he says, he will make it his obsession to use his position as a radio talkshow host to "savage" this person at every oppoertunity he can.
I would not be surprised if he brings up S&P, Cannis Hoopus, and the emailer Ballermo is a fraud guy, in an upcoming show exposing each as " laughable losers, cowards," and any other "savagery" that comes to mind on his upcoming shows if someone points him to this criticism. I once sent a quick email to him in response to a political point I disagreed with. I told him he should stick to sports. Apparently, he made it the subject of a segment of a show. I only know this, because it wasn't enough to "savage" the emailer Andy on his show, he also had to respond with an email to me to let me know, in case I missed it, that I was the subject of his savagery on his show and him and his listeners had quite a good time. He just let me in a little bit on what goes on inside his head. Its what makes him interesting, in a way. He won't let things that bother him go. He will rehash them over and over in his mind and justify it compelling ways. He is not an unintelligent person. But, the guy has some issues, thats for sure.
You're right about the Son of Sid. The best part about the Wolves bolting from KFAN a few years back was getting rid of him.
As for Ballermo, he's transported a very common character/personality from the world of politics into the world of sports talk: the Middle Man.
He frames each and every single topic on his show in terms of Group A vs. Group B and good ol' Dan takes a position that supposedly lies in the rational middle. Once he sets up the two camps, he will undoubtedly get attention from both 'sides' and the claim that he is savaged from all directions becomes a self-fulfilling perpetual motion machine.
I caught the segment that Ballermo is a fraud guy was talking about while driving through New Ulm. The basic thrust of it was that anyone who paid attention to the summer league was an idiot and that fans of good teams (like the Spurs) wouldn't pay attention to the action. You know, fans like these guys:
http://www.poundingtherock.com/
The entire "savagery" was built around a straw man...as it often is.
Oh well.
Re: Barreiro and the rest of the KFAN drivel.
You guys should consider public radio. Yes, it does have a liberal bent, but not as bad as perceived. Good, intelligent news content, and NO commericals!
Hell these KFAN guys don't even stick to sports, which is the only reason people would ever tune in. BTW, have you ever heard the Common Man? Talk about unlistenable...I've never heard a more retarded radio show.
RL,
Its automatic for me. Drive home and the radio dial is on 1500 to catch Ruesse at 4:45. Switch over to KFAN after the news at 5:00 to see who Dan has coming up as a guest (hoping for Steve Ashburner, Majaris or if its a really god day - Britt), then as soon as Dan veers from sports I hit the FM button tuned to 91.1
I have to say I have never understood the public radio and liberal association. I think thats how it is framed by people like Kesller and Dan B. Since every thing on the AM talkshow dial is so unabashedly rightwing and conservatives rule the airwaves, public radio presenting an objective perspective is so far left of these views its called liberal. I think that is nonsense. In fact, I often think public radio is too careful in presenting an objective viewpoint in fear of alienating corporate sponsorship and is often more conservative than liberal for my tastes.
But, just for writing that someone in the Dan B mindframe or conservative talk show host will color me as a pinko commie liberal. Funny, because, I actually think my views are conservative in a Wendell Berry kind of way - but that just goes to show how screwed up I am with all these liberal/conservative, right wing/left wing, wingnut/bleeding hearts, right crazy/left crazy distinctions that Dan B wants to make placing everyone in one category or another.
Very well put APB.
Dan B plays a very clever bait-and-switch where he is quick to label any opinion that is not his own (his are always the nuanced ones in the 'middle' that just happen to be presented up against cliches or straw men), but when called out on something, he makes one of the following claims:
1- it's just satire
2- he's an equal opportunity offender
3- you're the one with an ax to grind
That pretty much covers all his bases. Plus, he has the built in shield that is afforded to each and every single radio host (and is best deployed by Sean Hannity): his words disappear into nothing. There's a really good passage from Erich Fromm about this aspect of radio...I'll try to dig it up.
Lighten up guys. The truth is it is a little nerdish to be debating summer league performances, Dan B is just doing his thing, which a lot of people happen to like. He makes fun of nearly everyone so it's a little stupid to get offended.
My take on his show is that his negativity is needed in this market because so many other sports media types are homers and apologists for the local teams (guys like Shooter, Sid and Mike Max being the biggest offenders).
As for the political stuff, whether you agree with him or not it is refreshing for a radio guy to not be a slave to the views of the left of right. Sports wise I couldn't disagree more, he's not out of touch especially regarding the Wolves, a team that's given people in the Twin Cities about zero reason to be positive over the last four years.
To borrow a bit from the Incredibles (I have small kids), who cribbed the original idea from Ann Rand: if everybody is special than no one is. The same can be said for Dan B and his so called savagery. It's applied so widely that it is without meaning, precision, or direction. It's his schtick. It's infotainment, not real satire or insight.
Luckily for him, the targets of much of his attention (the left and right) are just as undefined and vague as his approach is to them. Whether or not the Hatfields and McCoys hate one another has very little to do with (insert your issue of choice here). He has a niche and he's sticking to it.The problem with this is that it's yet another log in the great big fire of false balance, which is one of the main reasons why our modern media is broke, broke, broke.
Getting back to the Wolves, I can think of 2 post-Brewer pick things that they haven't gotten right: Ratliff's expiring contract and Chalmers. His take on Mauer is best explained over at www.aarongleeman.com and his stance on KG...well, hopefully the title took care of that discussion for a while.
He said he would have voted for KG for MVP of the league this year for God sake's he's hardly not given the guy credit. He ripped on him for not scoring in the forth quarter when he was here, yes, and I disagreed with that, but he also said all along that KG wasn't a stone cold scoring type player but an all around guy. That's about what everyone here believes, too. His rips were always directed toward McHale for not surrounding KG with the right guys.
As for Mauer, Dan correctly ripped the Twins at the time because money was a big reason they picked Mauer over Prior, regardless of how it has ended up. The Twins might well have taken Prior if he hadn't demanded a $10 million pro contract in addition to the signing bonus. It also is worth noting that had the Twins taken him, his domination his first year in the pros may well have gotten the Twins to the World Series that year.
Mauer now is clearly better so it's a moot point but there was plenty of reason to question it at the time.
And you've nicely summarized the problem with his show: these items aren't what is actually being discussed here. The Mauer nonsense he's on lately has everything to do with him hitting 2nd, getting singles, not playing every day, and having no power. The KG stuff has morphed from KG being at the center of his issues to McHale being inable of surrounding him with talent. None of this has to do with what has actually happened with the team in the past year...which has been different. To crib from Monty Python: he's ripping in your general direction. In the end, it's less about the issues at hand and more about the commentary on the issue from Camp A or Camp B. From "those people" to "the folks who like summer league" to "the Dumbocrats", he's firing into the air more than he's bringing out the scalpel.
I don't get what your saying. Mauer doesn't have any power and should be hitting second because of it — what does that have to do with what' was said five years ago about the draft? Should Dan not be allowed to criticize Mauer now because he's ended up a good player and justified his top selection? And I don't think KG was ever the main target of Dan it was always McHale. If you don't like the guy's show fine. But you seem to be reachin for straws to prove a point I'm not sure is makable.
And by the way it's not written in stone that all McHale's moves lately have been good ones there's still plenty of people (including me) who think the love-mayo swap will end up another McHale special: drafting a player than immediately trading said player for an inferior one. Ironically Dan agrees with you that the Love trade was a good one.
Back from Vegas. I only got to check out the first Wolves game, because their second game was the night that I left, but I was able to get some initial impressions on both Love and Mayo (unfortunately they played at the same time in 2 different gyms, so I had to run back-and-forth throughout the games to see both of them). In the summer leagues I no longer look at the numbers, I look at how they play and what I think will/won't translate. So here were some of my impressions (and I'm sure there will be lots of overlap with Britt's excellent takes, as it was the same game that he reported on):
*Love. In the immortal words of Denny Green, in a lot of ways Love is who I THOUGHT he was. He has outstanding fundamentals on both offense and defense. The Wolves ran the offense through him in the high-post much the way that they used to with KG, letting him post at either the top of the key or the elbow to receive the entry pass with his back to the basket, then read the play to either pass to a cutter on the wing, swing the ball or make an offensive move. He looked utterly comfortable with that role, making good decisions and executing them well. He has a consistent jumper out to the college 3-point line, and though he missed most of his NBA-range treys it is clear from his shooting mechanics that eventually he'll add that shot to the repertoire. He is also a good offensive rebounder and comfortable setting up in the post, but with Big Al in the fold it was more important that he display a strong high-post ability, which he did in spades.
On the negative side, there were a couple of ...not RED flags, but at least orange flags about his athleticism possibly affecting both his offensive and defensive capabilities. On offense, there were at least two occasions that I can remember when he had post position, but upon the entry pass his longer, more athletic defender (James Singleton? Can't remember) quickly stepped wide and reached around him to deflect the ball. While I would expect Love to get better at anticipating this, and possibly some of it was due to poor entry passes, the fact that it happened multiple times in summer league competition makes one wonder what would happen against KG or Camby.
On defense, I noted that when a Maverick got out on the fast break and Love was back, his first instinct was to try to draw the charge instead of blocking the shot (he was a step slow and called for the foul). While I applaud the defensive hustle required to take a charge, if Love truly played above the rim the way his 35" combine vertical suggests that he could, it would seem that he would have gone for the block. This was just one play, but it helped confirm the impression that Love's college game is a more accurate reflection of his athleticism than the combine numbers.
Overall, though, Love was impressive. And his numbers from the other two SL games suggest that he has continued to impress since I left. And oh yeah, before I forget, I've seen some people suggest that Love try to slim down and play SF. That will NEVER happen. His lower body is just naturally wide, and no matter how hard he works out he'll never be slim and athletic enough to be a 3. But he does seem to have the tools to be a good high-post 4, which is what he was drafted to be.
*Brewer. I don't have a lot of analysis to add on top of what Britt wrote. It was blatantly obvious that Brewer had been told to shoot, and shoot often, as he pulled the trigger just about every time that I saw him touch it. The final box score said he had three assists, but those must have happened during the times when I was at the other gym because I genuinely can't remember him passing. It was encouraging when he made the first two jumpers, but after that it went down hill rapidly. He was obviously forcing it, and a couple of the spectators near where I was sitting muttered and jeered him throughout the game whenever he took another crazy shot. But just like last year in the summer league, Brewer is just FUN to watch on defense. Very few players have such a wow factor on defense, so I continue to hope that he is able to improve to even replacement-level offense so that he can stay on the court long enough to show that defense.
*Mayo. Mayo is extremely difficult to judge in the summer league, because it was clearly obvious that he was playing more like "2nd year Foye" than "rookie Foye" in the summer league. In Foye's rookie year in Vegas, he went all out and just took it to the rim to try to score every time. In his second summer league, though, Foye played at a much more controlled pace and was obviously working on his jumper. He even confirmed that when I spoke to him, saying that since he had already proven himself the year before, he was instead taking the summer league to work on specific aspects of his game (i.e. 3-point shooting) and was not really worried about trying to go out and be the MVP.
Back to Mayo, he was obviously in the "I have nothing to prove, so I am going to work on my game" mode. He played at a very controlled pace, and rarely (if ever) really tried to drive with intent to score. He played off the ball with Crittenton running the PG about 3/4 of the time, and on those posessions he would set up on the wing and generally work himself into a face-up jumper against his defender from about 18 feet away. He wasn't making very many...I don't know his final line, but I'd have to guess that he probably took at least 20 shots to get about 20 points. On the other 1/4 of the possessions, they let Mayo run the PG. He was clearly not a natural PG...his handle wasn't strong enough, he had some turnovers and/or poor passes when the defense trapped him, and he did not really set up his teammates in scoring position very often. On the other hand, he also clearly was not uncomfortable running the show. He didn't always just generically bring it up and pass it to the wing, as sometimes he would make bounce-pass entries into the post or look to make better plays. But on the whole he dribbled too much and would have a long way to go before he could be a floor general, though in Memphis they have anything BUT a PG shortage so I doubt that will be a problem.
On defense, Mayo showed that he really does have the tools to be a strong perimeter defender. The problem is, though, that he showed that best against the opposing PG. He has a good defensive stance, moves his feet well, and does a good job getting through on-ball picks. On the down side he was also visibly shorter than Crittenton (who is listed at 6'5) and there weren't a lot of off-ball screens used in the summer league so it is not clear how Mayo will match up with the Kobes and Hamiltons of the world. Nevertheless, he seems to have the potential to be a plus NBA defender if he puts in the effort.
The most impressive player on the Grizzlies team was Darrell Arthur, who put on a dunking exhibition in the warm-ups (along with some guy with braids, who I have no idea who it was but was doing some downright filthy dunks in the lay-up line) then proceeded to be the dominant player in game action. And he did it in multiple ways...he stayed on the glass on offense and defense, he ran the court and finished well, he showed a nice mid-range jumper, and he even posted up a couple of times. Because he was so clearly the best big man athlete on the court it is hard to tell how much his game will translate to the bigger, better competition of the real NBA. But he definitely has NBA level athleticism, and his game already looks more polished than someone like Hakim Warrick.
On the whole, that night of action continued my draft-night impression that the Love/Miller trade was good value in exchange for Mayo. But since I still don't believe I've seen Mayo go all out yet, I maintain my "as long as Mayo doesn't become a superstar" caveat. But so far, so good.
drz--
Great stuff here. Thanks for taking so much time to put in such a substantial on-the-scene contribution.
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